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Author Topic: People's views regarding transpeople  (Read 15725 times)

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Offline Parts

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #405 on: April 28, 2011, 12:45:44 PM »
GA's still her husband

OK - I have finally put the last required piece together to understand some of the previous comments.   :asthing:

Oh, and  :yawn:

 :P

If you're so sleepy, you could take a nap and someone could wake you up when this is over.

:dream:

It seems like it will never be over kinda like

ARE WE THERE YET
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw

Offline Adam

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #406 on: April 28, 2011, 12:55:50 PM »
GA is totally ignoring the feelings of her family? I didn't think that was the case. Why do you think that?

And she didn't "lead her on"

When I was 15/16, if you had asked me if I was trans, I would have said No. And I wouldn't have been lying. It's the same as gay people who are in denial about their sexuality. If GA KNEW her "trans stuff" wan't over and that she wanted to have a sex change at some point, then yes that would have been wrong. But I'm oretty sure she didn't marry renaeden knowing this was going to happen, or wanting it to happen.

She spent the majority of her life trying to be a man FOR other people (and I'm pretty sure that included renaeden)

Do you have any idea how hard that is? Be thankful you don't

Offline Parts

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #407 on: April 28, 2011, 01:06:34 PM »
GA is totally ignoring the feelings of her family? I didn't think that was the case. Why do you think that?

And she didn't "lead her on"

When I was 15/16, if you had asked me if I was trans, I would have said No. And I wouldn't have been lying. It's the same as gay people who are in denial about their sexuality. If GA KNEW her "trans stuff" wan't over and that she wanted to have a sex change at some point, then yes that would have been wrong. But I'm oretty sure she didn't marry renaeden knowing this was going to happen, or wanting it to happen.

She spent the majority of her life trying to be a man FOR other people (and I'm pretty sure that included renaeden)

Do you have any idea how hard that is? Be thankful you don't

Well believe it or not something relevant to add and not just tits :laugh:  What soph is saying is very true I have experience with it in my own family people change,

things happen, people change.  Life can be unpredictable and you must take it as it comes.  I don't feel he is being selfish,  for him to deny how he feels and living

a lie  would have been worse all around for both of them.    I feel for Ren but things happen 
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw

Offline Adam

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #408 on: April 28, 2011, 01:09:13 PM »
Exactly

It's not like GA married renaeden knowing this would happen.

And there are plenty of other reasons people split up when they never would have expected it.

What would the alternative be, GA living the rest of her life as a man, in misery and unable to actually have a genuine life? I don't think renaeden would want that, however much this has hurt her

Offline odeon

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #409 on: April 28, 2011, 01:26:33 PM »
I still think I'd much rather do it this way than risk messing with my brain (I mean my brain is obviously fucked already, I don't want it even worse :autism: )

And yeah,  I take your point bout the physical sex being determined earlier. I wasn';teven thinkign of chromosomes at the time as a lot of people don't have chromosomes that match their physical sex. And I mean when you're talking about people this applies to, not the entire population

But yeah if you're XX or XY is obviously determined much earlier

btw (for anyone), when do you guys think the wiring of the brain went wrong then? At some point in the womb?

My guess would be reasonably early but I am no expert. Where is Sophist when we need her?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline odeon

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #410 on: April 28, 2011, 01:30:01 PM »
I agree that people shouldn't be forced to. I don't think I;ve ever tried to force people here (or elsewhere) to call me "he". I don't think I've even asked

. I hope not anyway

No, AFAIK, never.

Doesn't stop me from getting confused at times. Like others have pointed out, the name "Soph" often causes me to subconsciously doubt the "he" I was about to write, but (again as others have pointed out) you don't come off as a "she" here, either. Confusion ensues before I even know why. :laugh:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline odeon

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #411 on: April 28, 2011, 01:32:47 PM »
I understand GA isn't very popular here now, but calling her "he" is also a kick in the face to all trans people really



I know it's not meant that way though. I'd just like to think that even if i wasn't trans myself I would still refer to a transwoman as she, whether I liked her or not.

It's not possible for you to know.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Rissy

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #412 on: April 28, 2011, 01:40:04 PM »
parts:


If what Rissy said is true i think she is selfish.  That being that she 'led her on'    Of course that is selfish.

I have led people on myself in my youth - but never married any of them.  
I don't quite meant that. I just mean that she shouldn't of married her because she is trans. I'm pretty sure it was a mutual enough relationship, but of course transitioning is going to hurt people. Putting on a facade for others and then finally shattering what people thought about you is obviously hard on others. It's like finding out that you were lied to by your spouse. If they meant to be together, Kayleigh should of started transitioning first.

Kayleigh is maybe a drama queen about how people treat her and not well-liked here. But she's not especially obnoxious in real life. You're welcome to dislike the people you dislike, but she's not as terrible to renaeden as you make out. About the only thing she did wrong is start transitioning after they were married.

And now back to being a one trick pony

Offline Adam

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #413 on: April 28, 2011, 01:41:07 PM »
I understand GA isn't very popular here now, but calling her "he" is also a kick in the face to all trans people really



I know it's not meant that way though. I'd just like to think that even if i wasn't trans myself I would still refer to a transwoman as she, whether I liked her or not.

It's not possible for you to know.

I dunno about that. Like I said before, if I'd been asked at 15/16 whether I was trans or not I'd have said no, and genuinely believed that, even though I was. Yet I wasnt homophobia or transphobic, so I think I can have a pretty good idea of how I;d be. Also when I'm on my own or just walking down the street or whatever, I don;t even think of myself as trans unless it becomes apparaent by some problem or by getting harrassed by other peoeple - so if I think of a transwoman, I don't even think of myself as being in the same position until I stop and think about it for a second.I just take people as whatever the gender they identify as, and I think that kinda view developed before I realised I was trans myself.

Offline Parts

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #414 on: April 28, 2011, 01:46:50 PM »
parts:


If what Rissy said is true i think she is selfish.  That being that she 'led her on'    Of course that is selfish.

I have led people on myself in my youth - but never married any of them.  
I don't quite meant that. I just mean that she shouldn't of married her because she is trans. I'm pretty sure it was a mutual enough relationship, but of course transitioning is going to hurt people. Putting on a facade for others and then finally shattering what people thought about you is obviously hard on others. It's like finding out that you were lied to by your spouse. If they meant to be together, Kayleigh should of started transitioning first.

Kayleigh is maybe a drama queen about how people treat her and not well-liked here. But she's not especially obnoxious in real life. You're welcome to dislike the people you dislike, but she's not as terrible to renaeden as you make out. About the only thing she did wrong is start transitioning after they were married.

And now back to being a one trick pony


Best post yet :lol:
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw

Offline odeon

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #415 on: April 28, 2011, 01:49:07 PM »

odeon:You talk about me judging people, but what if i went around making sexist, racist and pansexist comment, I'm sure you'd judge me. I'm here for the argument. Judging you is something I can do without typing a single key. I'm sure there's some argument we agree on and I could respect you for that, but I don't respect your view on transsexualism and I'm arguing against your comments.

You are still not arguing, you are only judging.


Quote
The argument's about fixing the mind seem quite ridiculous and in that case, there would be the technology to turn everyone into puppets.

Yes, and the technology used for the sex change operations could be used to turn you into donkeys. But my argument wasn't about puppets. What is yours about?

Quote
Transsexualism is about identity, I mean, preventative measures to stop people being born like that might work, but to reprogram the mind turns you into a different person and what kind of fanatic isn't going to start making slaves out of it. It's not a bit of brain you can cut out, you'd have to destroy and rebuild the brain, or atleast some of it.
The mind totally trumps the body, and while there are still people wired wrong, you should consider the mind over the body. I personally have no regard for human vegetables, which probably makes me a bitch, but a living being is their mind and take that away, they become food.

You are assuming that it must be a large operation when there is little evidence of. consider the *significant* changes in personality by adding serotonin to the brain. Screaming "puppets" and "vegetables" is scare tactics, but probably because you are afraid it actually might be a trivial procedure, aren't you?

Quote
Arguing about word definitions is stupid too. Dictionaries are inconsistent with each other and all that really matters is common use. You seem to forget that language is constantly developing and changes in trends. You act like your view is pure science and physical perspective, but since you think in such black and white terms, you are a pathetic scientist. Or maybe you just have a god complex and want make everything conform to the way you want everything to be. A transwomen is programmed to be a woman and socially there's no reason to consider them to be a man.

There is every reason because when you are confused about a definition as basic as this one, you will inevitably be confused about any matter even slightly more advanced. Your "argument" is very much like a religious person's argument against science and scientists: "their religion is science", etc. Like them, you miss the point of having a well-defined vocabulary, especially when the definitions are as clear-cut as these.

Quote
I think you are a twat and until you prove you aren't I'm clearly winning this argument.
 
I can take the same stance. But that argues nothing, it just says that you consider yourself superior in your own head. Who was the one talking about fantasies? 8)

You already did, remember? I guess the reason why you quoted me out of context is that you are hoping nobody would remember why I made that comment.

Basically you are still judging.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline odeon

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #416 on: April 28, 2011, 01:49:55 PM »
I know that a lot of this is just making fun, or just pissing Kayleigh off 'cause you hate her. But people like odeon are actually expressing cissexist views and I'm just debating his reasons.

You are judging, dear. I'm still waiting for an actual argument.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline odeon

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #417 on: April 28, 2011, 01:56:51 PM »
Lol~ Word-filter it all you want, but that's just going to make botty-burp your new favourite word  >:D
If you want to be immature about it I can necro every available thread with discussion of botty-burp, but I can take a joke.

More advanced trolling is relevant to the topic, but in a way making fun of or provoking the subject. And the fact that it was a mocking argument making fun of an individual instead of actually debating the argument she made against you, it counts as trolling. Passive aggressiveness isn't necessarily subtle anyway, it's just about the attitude and method. Your response right there is perfect troll reasoning. I know because I can be a troll myself. It seems to me that your arguments consist of acting dumb and demanding evidence which you then reject. Are you just trying to troll me until I leave or are you actually going/trying to make a point against me?

You complain about all the links Kayleigh post around so why would you want me to post them? I'm not even complaining about most of the membership I'm mostly trying to debate with odeon. You don't do anything but pick at the wording I use. To avoid botty-burp, you have to treat a transwoman like a ciswoman and a transman like a cisman. The obvious infraction is refusing to use the right pronouns. Anyone here who does that is cissexist. It doesn't make a single difference what your opinion on transsexualism is, it's still botty-burp.

Now I'm not here to tell you what to do with your life, or what to believe. But I am calling people on their botty-burp and it's up to them to live with it or not. Other than that, I'm happy to debate with people over their justification for botty-burp.

bodaccea: While transitioning is a choice, transsexualism is just something you're born with, like autism. Since you were born with proper gender identity, of course you don't understand the feeling of changing your sex. If you want to ponder how if feels, just imagine all your everyday tasks as if everyone viewed you as a guy and responded as such. Getting past perversion at your own new genitals and stuff guys are allowed to do, you can't really express yourself in the same way and I'm sure it just wouldn't feel right.

TL;DR
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline odeon

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #418 on: April 28, 2011, 02:01:21 PM »
oh and for the record, I am NOT in any way trying to play down what's happened to renaeden here. I think anyone who knows how much my family concerns me in all this will know that - the effect on family of trans people is not something I take lightly at all

I just don't see how GA is being any more selfish than should be expected of anyone in her position

He is being a self-important cunt. Like Callaway I knew him as a man long before I was made aware of him being trans. GA remained a he because that is I learned to know him at WP, here and elsewhere. Then came his behaviour in this thread and now I wouldn't dream of labelling him as anything else than a he.

He wants respect? He should start by giving it.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

eris

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Re: People's views regarding transpeople
« Reply #419 on: April 28, 2011, 02:17:08 PM »
WOW I can't believe I read all that. I want that time back.


Rissy, you are no fun, and far too sensitive. I just see personal issues between old friends. This world is too PC. I can't find any goddamn tylenol