I was just teasing with the whole winning thing. And I just meant that you seemed to be attacking individuals for personal reasons rather than arguing any point at them. You do seem to have personal reasons for disliking Kayleigh and are just trying to hurt her rather than debate with her. You seem a bit emotional and as you said, you're just reacting. I just tend to say people are crying when they get emotional about it.
If you look at bodaccea's last post, that's a the sort of response to give without caring too much. Transpeople were born with the wrong gender identity and so the body just feels wrong. It's like some kind of body horror that you're born into. All they do is modify their bodies as best they can and act the way they want. While you can't really cross over all the way, you still have the opposite gender. They want to be acknowledged for their mind and personality and not for physical make up. And considering how biology isn't black and white like that, someone's mind is what really matters about someone. You don't have to date a transgirl you're not attracted to, but you should understand that she is socially a girl. It's under social circumstances that you call a transgirl a girl and use female pronouns, and vice versa for transguys. Its just simple respect. The practice of acknowledging people for what they do and not for what they look like.
I don't understand the concept of male and female being just about sexual characteristics. If they were dependent of your ability to, and role in reproduction, I could understand. But infertile or deformed people still have gender placed on them. And gender labeling is used for social purposes rather than sexual purposes.
But generally botty-burp is about disrespect and discrimination against transpeople. Transphobia tends to be more about violence and more serious things. I do think it's cissexist if you can't respect pronouns of others. Struggling with them are okay, but if you're not acknowledging someones identity, it's offensive and hurtful. I compared it to autism before because some people seem to think asperger's is crap too. I mean saying that transpeople are deluded is definitely insulting. And some people are kind of saying it is.
I think this topic was started because people weren't quick to defend transpeople, which may be true, and kind of sucks. But if you can be considerate to transpeople, it's okay enough.
And I'm sure you have friends Hubert. And I never claimed to be original or anything special. I joined because I wanted to join this discussion. I'm sure to get bored and argue with people on other random forums too, maybe reappearing unexpectantly again sometime. I just like to debate against stuff I don't agree with. There's still Heinrich here and such, so it's not like Kayleigh is the only person here that may be hurt
Ah so what 2 days here and 17 posts in and you have an idea of what upsets me or drives me or even what my beliefs are? I find this a rather curious concept. Internet psycho-analysis warp factor nine? :lol:
I am like this all the time and I don't mean to put a downer on what looked to be a nice little follow on, but meh. You could ask others if this is me being overly-emotional but sometimes the things we imagine are far more powerful than what is. Ask Kayleigh.
Now two points I guess. The first is that I was "attacking Kayleigh" personality rather than Kayleigh's gender? Correct. The truth was that I have no real need in my mind to defend my values and I had no issue with trangenderism and was "attacked" by Kayleigh (as you pointed out). It is not the first time Kayleigh has done this. Someone raises anything to do with Transgender and in flounces Kayleigh giving sermons, posting must read links and tell us what we should think and how terrible we are for not holding their worldview over something that we simply don't give a shit about.
So attack Kayleigh personally? Sure why not? Nothing I said was a troll it is sentiments felt by myself and others due to Kayleigh's asshattery.
As to Kayleigh's points in general about Transgenderism? Yes marginalised people get marginalised and picked on and it is shitty. Yes there is bigotry to all marginalised groups. No it is not fair. Yes being on the receiving end of indifference or bigotry is not fun. Understood. Autistics get it too. It sucks.
Specifically, no we are not collectively in need of damning, lecturing, re-educating, or being labelled as phobic because some of us really don't care to give this issue much thought. I will tell you another thing. I do not give the persecution of Jewish people throughout history or Cerebal Palsy sufferers or of the Refugees in Villawood or political prisoners in Guantanemo Bay much thought. Sure I think it sucks and I understand a little about their plight but their world and there problems and their struggles simply has no real place in my life and I have no overwhelming need to embrace it and educate or rail against myself for not being an activist for their causes. None of these things has the least impact in my life and I actually refuse to feel bad for not learning more or making a greater effort to understand and appreciate the condition. It has no impact on my life. The issues with transgenderism are similar in the respect of how they impact my life, personally and my desire to know more.
As terrible as it sounds. Why should I care? I Know Kayleigh cares and it has a large impact on Kayleigh's life and Kayleigh would care but why should I??
Now if you have wrapped your mind around this concept I want you to go the next logical step. If I and others don't care, would it follow we are negative or bigoted? Think on it. Presume that we are marginalised ourself and also presume by and large we do not have have any investment in transgenderism and little contact with transpeople IRL. So no fear or issue and that by and large on here we hate everyone about the same.
Tell me where your suggestion of botty-burp or transphobia may rate in our consciousness collectively or individually?
Final point I have yet to see you back the claim of trolling and kind of would like to sex whether this was a fishing exercise or you actually had anything substantial. I know you have come in here like a bit of a firecracker and that is good. I like a bit of spirit and strong opinions. I have a few myself. I do want you tpo back yourself though and not hide behind the "Oh I was joking" or "I misread" that would make you look rather weak or stupid and I don't want to see that happen because you seem like a reasonable and a smart person. Would like those answers though.
