People's views regarding transpeople

[Rissy]

I don't think people are being transphobic, but maybe maybe a little cissexist.
I don't have a problem with bodaccea's view. Generally transpeople do leave off the 'trans' part, but in a topic like this, you need to differentiate. Odean and Al Swearengen are the ones that are being loudly cissexist.

I'd like to point out that everyone here can be labeled a "pompous, arrogant blowhard."

So that hypocrisy means the position is invalid or valid or are you just deflecting?

I'm just saying that you're just throwing out insults, and ones that can easily be turned back on you. It doesn't strike me as an argument, it's just name-calling.

Kayleigh's rage post is an example of disrespect returning to you. It's obviously an angry, emotional reply. She wasn't in the thread until Odean started saying disrespectful things to her. She refined her rage towards you, Odean and Callaway if you read her post. I don't think you and Callaway deserved it at that point, but maybe she was putting rage and arguments too close together. But Odean did deserve the return of disrespect. Rage posts are obviously immature, but it's not like she didn't have a point amongst it. This thread does have a point though, and you seem too busy hating people for personal reasons to talk about it at all. I'm mostly trying to turn it back into a discussion instead of irrelevantly attacking each other on petty details. Odean might of upset Kayleigh, but at the same time, he was giving his opinion in a way that was on topic.
I'm sure we can all face the facts, it's better to stay level headed in a discussion and getting emotional and angry just leads to meaningless bickering. I agree that her post was bitchy, but I'm finding a lot of your posts in this thread no better. Feel free to say that I'm disrespectful and such, but I'd rather get on topic and discuss the topic. There's definitely some cissexist vibes and that's what the thread is about.
Don't complain about my arguments when yours are summed up as botty-burp while denying botty-burp, which happens to be this thread's topic.

[Calavera]

And, the sweetheart of this board, she got hurt in the process.

I think that not being a woman really was no option for Kayleigh. But, most of the members here will think of Ren when reading about GA. And we saw her getting hurt in the months and months before Kayleigh did decide to go through with coming out as a woman.
This will be there. She is still hurt. Kayleigh had no option to play a man longer. But, at least she was in control of what happened then. Ren had no options at all, and no control. She saw who she loved dearly and had not even that long ago pledged herself to change and grow away from her.
And of course Kayleigh never wanted to hurt her. But, it was unavoidable. And most of us here just adore Ren here and always have I think.

Yeah, renaeden seems like a sweet person. A shame this happened.

Ah, well. That's life.

[eris]

rissy - dont expect anyone to ever stay on topic here, no matter how serious an issue might seem. Also, if you act sensitive about something you've really got a target on your head.

[Calavera]

What serious issue? That a couple of trans have a severe persecution complex?

That is not serious to me.

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

What serious issue? That a couple of trans have a severe persecution complex?

That is not serious to me.

Awww shit, get your umbella out... 

[Al Swearegen]

Which do you think will have the greatest effect- attacking you personally for your woeful personality and bigoted arrogant views or attacking you as a transperson? i would suggest any member on this board you loathe to attack whichever has the greatest effect on you. As a result you may decide to leave as a result.

oh ....wait a minute...

If there were any doubt left that you are little more than a troll, you just washed them away. You're a total arsehole.

"Woeful personality"? Wow.

You keep saying I'm bigotted and arrogant. But I see no evidence of these claims. When asked to present any you just go off on another trollish rant. You're true colours are showing, you better be careful lest others realise what you really are.

Your argument is incredibly flawed. You claim that I do not conduct myself appropriately. (though I fail to see how that related to me "woeful personality") And yet you claim that attacking my being trans will have the greatest effect. Effect for what? To change my behaviour? That's absurd, attacking my being trans only upsets me, I learn nothing from such attacks.

(For what it is worth I and many here can not see all these imaginary implied or expressed slights and attacks. I think you are cloud gazing and seeing shit that just isn't there. I think that your personal investment in transgenderism is not what everyone else's is and I think that your personal values are not what others's are. People do not generally give a shit and nor have any reason to. Like it or not. We are not bigots we just don't care. You see the difference, zealot? No? Not surprised)

My personal investment in transgenderism is not what everyone else's is? NO FUCKING SHIT SHERLOCK.

See a difference? You haven't made any logical comparison for me to see a difference. What? I'm different than most people here? Well duh. I already knew that. Did you not?

I may be a zealot, but at least I fight for something I believe in. I guess all you have is trolling autistics and getting your jollies that way. I know who I'd rather be.

Don't hate me for being right.
Change your behaviour? Never thought that to be an option and don't suspect anyone would. We don't care.
To have you leave...now there is a better odds result. Proven to be right too. You can't have people respect your right to "educate them" or be "preached at" or respect your worldviews and you are not going to be likely to change (you are a zealot after all) but dummy spit and pack up your toys and vitriol and leave?

I have not seen the transphobic assertions you allude to. I do see a group of people in a forum you hate being largely condemned by you for not fitting into your own definitions of how we ought to accept you and others and your want to accuse us of being transphobic.
Call me an arsehole and I can live with that. I am quite comfortable with me and calling it like i see it. Always have been.

You won't see anything I put to you and this is evidenced not only in this thread but many transgender threads.
Your form is the same each time.
You come in and post a handful of links for us to educate ourselves on transgenderism, you rail against the members individually or specifically for having flawed values and or points of view and anyone who challenges that your view of what they say or think is met with you telling us how we need to embrace your perceptions and a failure to makes us lesser people (paraphrased).

Yes Kayleigh that is arrogant. That is bigoted. That is self-centred, pompous and reflective of a rather woeful personality.
Makes me an arsehole to point it out? yup. Makes me a troll? Maybe. Makes a decent point? I think so.

Again I have not seen these imagined attacks on you being trans but I would imagine any attacks on you were because you are rather disliked and I think your 4 days left, will pass and be better passed to have you and your account deleted.

You have contributed very little with these debates from what I can see. Pretty much everyone from what they have posted doesn't really give a shit about trangender. They know basically what trangender is and have no real issue apart from the fact that a blowhard with your username comes in occasionally to tell them what miserable transphobic people they are and lectures them. You will not be missed by many.

Sure i have made logical difference. I have spelled it out and others see it but you have zealot blinkers on.

You are transgender. We don't care. You say "You guys are transphobic". We say "No we aren't". You preach and show links of transphobia and imply a level of investment to trannsgederism that we simply do not have and assert that because we do not have your accepted appreciuation of perceptions or investment of transgender that we are wrong.
No we aren't. No we ought not have to care. No we ought not take your views on board. No it ought not impact our lives.
You refuse to take the hint.
It is not because you are an activist it is because you are a zealous bigot.

Call it trolling but I don't suspect anyone is buying it.
Call it me getting my jollies but I don't care much either way. it is you and you will be gone in 4 days. Why would I really care? Because it is you?  :lol:

I certainly know who I would rather be too Kayleigh. I would not be you for all the tea in China. I doubt many would

[eris]

What serious issue? That a couple of trans have a severe persecution complex?

That is not serious to me.

Awww shit, get your umbella out... 

:O

*snaps fingers 3 times in a Z formation*

[Al Swearegen]

I don't think people are being transphobic, but maybe maybe a little cissexist.
I don't have a problem with bodaccea's view. Generally transpeople do leave off the 'trans' part, but in a topic like this, you need to differentiate. Odean and Al Swearengen are the ones that are being loudly cissexist.

I'd like to point out that everyone here can be labeled a "pompous, arrogant blowhard."

So that hypocrisy means the position is invalid or valid or are you just deflecting?

I'm just saying that you're just throwing out insults, and ones that can easily be turned back on you. It doesn't strike me as an argument, it's just name-calling.

Kayleigh's rage post is an example of disrespect returning to you. It's obviously an angry, emotional reply. She wasn't in the thread until Odean started saying disrespectful things to her. She refined her rage towards you, Odean and Callaway if you read her post. I don't think you and Callaway deserved it at that point, but maybe she was putting rage and arguments too close together. But Odean did deserve the return of disrespect. Rage posts are obviously immature, but it's not like she didn't have a point amongst it. This thread does have a point though, and you seem too busy hating people for personal reasons to talk about it at all. I'm mostly trying to turn it back into a discussion instead of irrelevantly attacking each other on petty details. Odean might of upset Kayleigh, but at the same time, he was giving his opinion in a way that was on topic.
I'm sure we can all face the facts, it's better to stay level headed in a discussion and getting emotional and angry just leads to meaningless bickering. I agree that her post was bitchy, but I'm finding a lot of your posts in this thread no better. Feel free to say that I'm disrespectful and such, but I'd rather get on topic and discuss the topic. There's definitely some cissexist vibes and that's what the thread is about.
Don't complain about my arguments when yours are summed up as botty-burp while denying botty-burp, which happens to be this thread's topic.

Hey I always back my position and I am reactionary but I am not emotional about this.
Kayleigh has been a member here and knows that any claim put out here have to be backed. If Kaleigh can't too fucking bad. Reflects not at all on me or Odeon or Callaway or Rage or anyone else but Kayleigh.

You have read the initial post right? I don't really think it has much at all to do with Kayleigh's ramblings. I just think Kayleigh doesn't like being questioned or contested. Best they delete there account in that case.

[Al Swearegen]

One thing that strikes me as rather odd.

Anyone else get this. Kayleigh must be called Kayleigh and to call Kayleigh GA or Gallieo Ace (Kaleigh's previous username is insulting or wrong)
So what is Kayleigh known as themselves outside of here?

Screen Names   

    * bourqie(Yahoo! Messenger)
    * GalileoAce(Google Talk)
    * GalileoAce(Skype)
    * GalileoAce(Twitter)
    * GalileoAce@hotmail.com(Windows Live Messenger)

Website   

    * http://galileoace.com

Email   

    * galileoace@gmail.com
    * kayleigh.bourquin@gmail.com

Facebook   facebook.com/GalileoAce

You guys see something slightly strange here?

[Rissy]

rissy - dont expect anyone to ever stay on topic here, no matter how serious an issue might seem. Also, if you act sensitive about something you've really got a target on your head.

I totally agree with you there, it's where Kayleigh went wrong. But I'm saying I'm here to debate the issue and not deal with petty flaming. If all you can do is resort to trolling and insults, you have absolutely no argument. Most people here seem to be respectfully careless about transpeople. That's fine. But I'd like to debate with Odean since he's vocally cissexist and actually discusses his view. I'd like to talk to Swearengen too, but he seems to busy trolling and crying to put up an intellectual argument. I'm happy to talk to anyone who wants to debate or discuss things with me. I'm a bit of a bitch, but I like to stay level-headed and on topic is my replies.

Someone make an argument how swearengen and odean aren't being cissexist or make pro-botty-burp comments. Right now I just see trolling. I'm going to assume I'm winning this argument if no one makes a proper argument.   


And since when is GA not usable? Kayleigh is her name and GA is a username she still uses...

[Al Swearegen]

I'd like to talk to Swearengen too, but he seems to busy trolling and crying to put up an intellectual argument.

I'm going to assume I'm winning this argument if no one makes a proper argument.   

Yup your argument certainly makes no sense. I am not "crying" nor does one "cry to put up an intellectual argument".
But by all means, if that is your idea of a proper argument, or winning, have at it.

I'm happy to talk to anyone who wants to debate or discuss things with me. I'm a bit of a bitch, but I like to stay level-headed and on topic is my replies.

Fair enough. Yes you do seem a little more level-headed. Right or wrong or indifferent? Dunno. Give it a crack and time will tell.
To be honest my investment as mentioned is not that great. Hell we may be cissexist. I don't believe so and I really do not think I would care that much if I was. But I think keeping a level head is good and backing yourself is better. I can respect that.
I generally just react. That is my way. Not above learning nor apologising for a wrong I believe merits an apology or change where I think it bears merit, but I will be damned if I will be accused and lectured and preached at.

Someone make an argument how swearengen and odean aren't being cissexist or make pro-botty-burp comments

I think you made the claim so take the floor. Kayleigh's efforts were up to shit but see how you go making a case for it either way.


BTW: You may want to show examples of me trolling here in this debate too. I can't see it and it is evident to both you an Kayleigh so better back that too. No I will not accept a differing point of view nor fiercely contested debate as trolling. Proper examples

[midlifeaspie]

If anyone is ever mean to me I sure hope some noob signs up an account to defend me, and hopefully has the foresight to compare everything to autism because that's a new tactic that we have never before seen on these boards and appears to be highly effective.  I know that this action would make my position 100% more credible, and leave the casual reader with a much higher opinion of me.   

So, if Kayleigh has quit the forum why are we arguing over which pronoun to use?  Is she worried that we are going to refer to him incorrectly in the third person after she has departed?

[Al Swearegen]

Changed my mind just slightly. One last post before my account is deleted per request.

5 posts ago

Here for 4 more days. Four more days of preachy and insensible ramblings?  :lol:

All good. May actually get more sense from Rissy. Rissy seems as they say to have more of a level-head and is less emotional. There may be more sense to be had.
I am an optimist maybe after all. ,

[Rissy]

I was just teasing with the whole winning thing. And I just meant that you seemed to be attacking individuals for personal reasons rather than arguing any point at them. You do seem to have personal reasons for disliking Kayleigh and are just trying to hurt her rather than debate with her. You seem a bit emotional and as you said, you're just reacting.  I just tend to say people are crying when they get emotional about it.

If you look at bodaccea's last post, that's a the sort of response to give without caring too much. Transpeople were born with the wrong gender identity and so the body just feels wrong. It's like some kind of body horror that you're born into. All they do is modify their bodies as best they can and act the way they want. While you can't really cross over all the way, you still have the opposite gender. They want to be acknowledged for their mind and personality and not for physical make up. And considering how biology isn't black and white like that, someone's mind is what really matters about someone. You don't have to date a transgirl you're not attracted to, but you should understand that she is socially a girl. It's under social circumstances that you call a transgirl a girl and use female pronouns, and vice versa for transguys. Its just simple respect. The practice of acknowledging people for what they do and not for what they look like.

I don't understand the concept of male and female being just about sexual characteristics. If they were dependent of your ability to, and role in reproduction, I could understand. But infertile or deformed people still have gender placed on them. And gender labeling is used for social purposes rather than sexual purposes.

But generally botty-burp is about disrespect and discrimination against transpeople. Transphobia tends to be more about violence and more serious things. I do think it's cissexist if you can't respect pronouns of others. Struggling with them are okay, but if you're not acknowledging someones identity, it's offensive and hurtful. I compared it to autism before because some people seem to think asperger's is crap too. I mean saying that transpeople are deluded is definitely insulting. And some people are kind of saying it is.

I think this topic was started because people weren't quick to defend transpeople, which may be true, and kind of sucks. But if you can be considerate to transpeople, it's okay enough.
And I'm sure you have friends Hubert. And I never claimed to be original or anything special. I joined because I wanted to join this discussion. I'm sure to get bored and argue with people on other random forums too, maybe reappearing unexpectantly again sometime. I just like to debate against stuff I don't agree with. There's still Heinrich here and such, so it's not like Kayleigh is the only person here that may be hurt

[midlifeaspie]

I was just teasing with the whole winning thing. And I just meant that you seemed to be attacking individuals for personal reasons rather than arguing any point at them. You do seem to have personal reasons for disliking Kayleigh and such and are just trying to hurt them rather than debate with them. You seem a bit emotional and as you said, you're just reacting.  I just tend to say people are crying when they get emotional about it.

If you look at bodaccea's last post, that's a the sort of response to give without caring too much. Transpeople were born with the wrong gender identity and so the body just feels wrong. It's like some kind of body horror that you're born into. All they do is modify their bodies as best they can and act the way they want. While you can't really cross over all the way, you still have the opposite gender. They want to be acknowledged for their mind and personality and not for physical make up. And considering how biology isn't black and white like that, someone's mind is what really matters about someone. You don't have to date a transgirl you're not attracted to, but you should understand that she is socially a girl. It's under social circumstances that you call a transgirl a girl and use female pronouns, and vice versa for transguys. Its just simple respect. The practice of acknowledging people for what they do and not for what they look like.

I don't understand the concept of male and female being just about sexual characteristics. If they were dependent of your ability to, and role in reproduction, I could understand. But infertile or deformed people still have gender placed on them. And gender labeling is used for social purposes rather than sexual purposes.

But generally botty-burp is about disrespect and discrimination against transpeople. Transphobia tends to be more about violence and more serious things. I do think it's cissexist if you can't respect pronouns of others. Struggling with them are okay, but if you're not acknowledging someones identity, it's offensive and hurtful. I compared it to autism before because some people seem to think asperger's is crap too. I mean saying that transpeople are deluded is definitely insulting. And some people are kind of saying it is.

I think this topic was started because people weren't quick to defend transpeople, which may be true, and kind of sucks. But if you can be considerate to transpeople, it's okay enough.
And I'm sure you have friends Hubert. And I never claimed to be original or anything special. I joined because I wanted to join this discussion. I'm sure to get bored and argue with people on other random forums too, maybe reappearing unexpectantly again sometime. I just like to debate against stuff I don't agree with. There's still Heinrich here and such, so it's not like Kayleigh is the only person here that may be hurt

Just for lulz, ask Heinrich if he feels that he needs you to defend him.