People's views regarding transpeople

['andersom']

Religion and culture are ingrained in a person. Not by genetics, not nature, but nurture. Just like the throat of someone speaking English is slightly different from someone speaking Zulu. The sounds made help shaping the body.

I may have gotten rid of the dogmas I was raised with, think I did a pretty good job with that. But my thinking structure will be influenced by Calvinism. That bit is part of me. And there is no way it can be taken away from me. I raise my kids free to question everything someone tells them to be true, and to doubt every absolute truth. But, in their thinking style, Calvinism will be there. I don't think it is a bad trait. Doesn't bother me.

That's not the same as being religious. I will have Church of England in me, it's not the same as me being a christian though

Not for you. There's enough about how I am raised religiously that I still cherish. But, since I am a doubter at heart, and always have been, I'll never be a zealous follower of anything.

When I talk to people who are religious, I am not interested in what they believe perse, but in what it means to them that they believe.
And when I meet a woman who is a physical wreck of maybe 30 kgs, and pain-medication is not helping her, yet talking to Jesus makes her enjoy life, then I think that her religion is good for her. And as long as she doesn't push others to believe the same, I see no problems.

[Adam]

I see no problems with that either

['andersom']

Hykers, yarly. I'm lost. Just what the hell is this even about anymore?

I think this reply of me was a bit on topic.

First bit was answering the OP. About people being indifferent towards bullying of trans people.


Down the track the discussion of that changed into a discussion if GA/Kayleigh is female or not. Old discussion. Been done a thousand times. And then it got to the fun bits of people. And how they can or cannot be changed or hidden. So, I reacted on the femininity of Kayleigh too.

The video, didn't watch it, but, seeing the comments of the one making it posted by Kayleigh, the video was made by someone aware of the person being trans. And the video maker very likely had an issue with that. Sucks.

Bystanders being indifferent? I don't think that had anything to do with someone being trans or not. Most bystanders would not be aware of that. What you see of a person is what you assume someone to be. People just are indifferent a lot. Sucks.

GA becoming Kayleigh?

Did she become a better person? Don't think so. But that wasn't what it was about.
Did she become a more sensitive person? Don't think so. Before she could not say "Screw you I2 lot, beware you all may be becoming worse for being here". (paraphrasing) Now she can. That looks less sensitive to me. She doesn't care that much if we like her or not. That's less sensitive. I disagree with her idea that I2 will very likely turn members in someone worse than they were before btw. But, that's not the issue. 
Did Kayleigh become a more real person? To me she did. With GA I kept thinking he was trying very hard to be liked, to be funny, and what not. Big CLOWN factor, also in his pictures. With Kayleigh, I see just a woman in the pictures. Way more real than any impression GA ever made on me. I don't think she is better than GA, more sensitive, better looking or what ever comparison there is. I think she is just more real. And I think that is what counts.

I will probably now and then throw in a "he" with GA/KAyleigh, especially when referring to something that was about GA. That's habit.
With Soph throwing in a "she" just will not happen. I have no female memories or thoughts of Soph at all. So, no habit to kick.

Oh, I am guessing lots of people get uneasy thinking about trans, because they maybe trying to imagine someone changing their own fun bits. Like saying "ouch" when you see someone being kicked in the crotch. My guess. Could be way beside what makes people uneasy.

[Adam]

I think it's more to do with insecurity and one's ownn gender/sex/identity. I mean many trans people never get surgery, yet they receive as much, if not more in some situations, abuse that those who do

I reckon a lot of it has to do with not wanting to accept someone as being a man (or woman) just like you, if they don't physicallymatch up to it. As if that somehow takes away from your own masculinity/femininity. Kinda similar to homophobia with the insecurity

['andersom']

I think it's more to do with insecurity and one's ownn gender/sex/identity. I mean many trans people never get surgery, yet they receive as much, if not more in some situations, abuse that those who do

I reckon a lot of it has to do with not wanting to accept someone as being a man (or woman) just like you, if they don't physicallymatch up to it. As if that somehow takes away from your own masculinity/femininity. Kinda similar to homophobia with the insecurity

My version is more fun though. 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

I think it's more to do with insecurity and one's ownn gender/sex/identity. I mean many trans people never get surgery, yet they receive as much, if not more in some situations, abuse that those who do

I reckon a lot of it has to do with not wanting to accept someone as being a man (or woman) just like you, if they don't physicallymatch up to it. As if that somehow takes away from your own masculinity/femininity. Kinda similar to homophobia with the insecurity

I agree because I used to be a homophobe and most of what caused that was the feeling that my own sexuality wasn't certain at the time. Also it was the fear of misrepresentation and being alienated as a result of it that partly fueled it too. But I overcame that on my own, and feel that it was better that I wasn't preached at aggressively or condescendingly about it, and instead casually shown why I was wrong.

[RageBeoulve]

Oh I get it Hyke. Well heres my two cents.

Organized religions are like gangs. They consist of the insecure and the cowardly. Those who don't have the courage to ask "why", and those afraid of the answers.

The only solid answers can be found on your own, and they're likely different for everyone. All it takes is the bravery to open your mind and heart to the unknown, and daring to be the first.

As for transphobia, cmon folks grow up. Whatever gets you off right? I'd fuck a really pretty MtF. 

[Celticgoddess]

It's about me being a bibot for taking the piss out of religion 

:lol:

[Al Swearegen]

A few last points.

I never attack religious individuals. I attack RELIGIONS.

There is a big phrase in the autistic activist communities. "Nothing about us without us." Of course I give my opinions on trans issues, I am trans. I have a vested interest in such issues and discussions.

As to the 'fuck off' and 'GTFO', I plan on doing exactly that. In a week.

Hykeaswell, Thank You for you honest words. I appreciate it.


A video, the "Transwomen's Manifesto", I seriously doubt anyone who should view this will, and those that do view this are likely are already 'on side' as it were.

Yes, yes you will be gone soon, and the site will go on like you were never here.

As to you posting about Transgenderism and the issues around it, sure. As to you seeing a necessity to presume to judge us or what our vales or understandings are? Arrogant and bigoted. You will not see it because you are a zealot (not because you are Trans but because you are a zealot) and you are a self-centered, arrogant, blowhard.

Again the whole "I seriously doubt anyone who should view this will, and those that do view this are likely are already 'on side' as it were." Presuming "we" are taking sides or have polarised views. You don't actually understand do you? "We" collectively are not of an opinion good or bad about transgender issues. It may well be very big in your life but we do not much care. We are not affected by it and it impacts bugger all our life. The only investment we have in it is the imagined investment you presume to estimate we have in it.

Fucking stupid.

Now GA. Being that we don't care and you keep ignoring this and bringing it back. It leads me to suspect either of three possibilities.

1) You are a bigot and like to see everyone who does not embrace the shit that you do in the way you do as being bigoted themselves.

2) You are fucking stupid and can not comprehend that people not affected by transgenderism in their lives are unlikely to care either way no matter how much you would like them to care. You just can not understand or compute the difference.

3) both of the above.

Which is it?

[Adam]

If people doin't care then why is it any trouble for them to refer to her as "she"?

[RageBeoulve]

I just now watched that video. Samanthas not bad. I'd hit it. 

[Adam]

btw I have no complaints about people being indifferent to trand people - that is how it should be, no different to anyone else you don't know

The problem is the indifference to transphobia compared to other kinds of intolerance. If someone is racist or sexist on here, plenty of people would jump on them for that, but it seems a lot of those people see transphobia as something that isn't much of a big deal. If that's how someone views racism/sexism/homophobia too, then cool, but it's the double standards that irk me.

That is just the way it comes across to me anyway. And definitely not everyone here

[RageBeoulve]

btw I have no complaints about people being indifferent to trand people - that is how it should be, no different to anyone else you don't know

The problem is the indifference to transphobia compared to other kinds of intolerance. If someone is racist or sexist on here, plenty of people would jump on them for that, but it seems a lot of those people see transphobia as something that isn't much of a big deal. If that's how someone views racism/sexism/homophobia too, then cool, but it's the double standards that irk me.

That is just the way it comes across to me anyway. And definitely not everyone here

Shutup you sandnigger.

[Adam]

^ Faggot

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Again the whole "I seriously doubt anyone who should view this will, and those that do view this are likely are already 'on side' as it were." Presuming "we" are taking sides or have polarised views. You don't actually understand do you? "We" collectively are not of an opinion good or bad about transgender issues. It may well be very big in your life but we do not much care. We are not affected by it and it impacts bugger all our life. The only investment we have in it is the imagined investment you presume to estimate we have in it.

Fucking stupid.

Not to mention people who discriminate against others commonly use the "us v.s them" mentality to preach their points across too. The very notion of that mentality is what perpetuates alienation, as it creates a easy divide between people. George W Bush did the same thing with the beginning of the War on Terror, literally saying "Either you're with us, or against us", denoting that anyone who disagreed with U.S Government policy was potentially a terrorist sympathizer and potentially treated as such. It's dangerous thinking if it goes too far.

If people doin't care then why is it any trouble for them to refer to her as "she"?

I know you're asking Sir Les, but for me I don't have any problem, GA is a she as far as I'm concerned.