The right to bear arms

[Litigious]

The use of firarms to prevent crime outnumbers the crimes commited with guns by 50% in the U.S. It kind of makes the "crime issue" moot. The firarm issue is and always will be one of political power within a society.

Why does it make the "crime issue" moot? I honestly don't understand. 

If guns prevent more crimes than they create, then the whole questioning and restriction of guns is totally absurd.

[odeon]

In Europe most people have accepted the absurd legislation concerning firearms.

Since most people accept the legislation, my guess is that they don't find it absurd at all. They don't share your fear of becoming victims of ruthless criminals and power-hungry governments. In fact, since we've lived with such restrictions for quite a while now, without either the power-hungry governments OR the ruthless criminals taking over, I'd say that you're needlessly worried.

[Litigious]

Need I point out that barstools have other uses as well, but most firearms don't?

Guns have two uses:

1. Criminals and oppressors can wound and kill innocent, law-abiding people unprovoked with them.

2. Innocent, law-abaiding people can kill criminals and oppressor in self-defense.

2) is legitimate as far as I'm concerned.

[odeon]

The use of firarms to prevent crime outnumbers the crimes commited with guns by 50% in the U.S. It kind of makes the "crime issue" moot. The firarm issue is and always will be one of political power within a society.

Why does it make the "crime issue" moot? I honestly don't understand. 

If guns prevent more crimes than they create, then the whole questioning and restriction of guns is totally absurd.

If they do, it shows that we don't want to ease up on the restrictions, because it would become easier for criminals to get hold of firearms.

Gee, Litigious, haven't we been through this a couple of times now?

[odeon]

Need I point out that barstools have other uses as well, but most firearms don't?

Guns have two uses:

1. Criminals and oppressors can wound and kill innocent, law-abiding people unprovoked with them.

2. Innocent, law-abaiding people can kill criminals and oppressor in self-defense.

2) is legitimate as far as I'm concerned.

I'm pretty sure that barstools are useful in other areas entirely.

[odeon]

barely any protests against it.
now that is cowardly.

It's not as bad as it seems--we finally voted out the government responsible for these changes.

I agree with Litigious, though, to some extent, but it needs to be pointed out that the whole pension system was collapsing at the time. Something had to be done, and while I'm certainly not happy with what they did or how they did it, Sweden's still quite well off when compared to most Western countries.

[Litigious]

Since most people accept the legislation, my guess is that they don't find it absurd at all. They don't share your fear of becoming victims of ruthless criminals and power-hungry governments. In fact, since we've lived with such restrictions for quite a while now, without either the power-hungry governments OR the ruthless criminals taking over, I'd say that you're needlessly worried.

I don't care what "people" think. People are absurdly naïve. The criminals are advancing more and more. And I find the government and authorities rather oppressive already. You can never feel safe that something will continue being rather good just because it has been so so far.

[McGiver]

I am not making this up folks. I couldn't if I tried....  Quoted from MyDeathSpace.com...
Nice way to wrap up a thread though, should settle things.....

Christopher R. Schmidt, who served more than two years in federal prison for possessing stolen guns, used barstools to beat his friend to death .

Oh, my goodness! Why aren't bar stools licensed or banned? They're deadly weapons! (Yes, it's irony, I paraphrase the anti-gunners, the "reasoning" is in its logical form exactly the same).

Need I point out that barstools have other uses as well, but most firearms don't?

yes, if you were to turn a barstool upside down then you can fit 4 gay men into a crowded bar.

[Litigious]

It's not as bad as it seems--we finally voted out the government responsible for these changes.

What makes you think that the new government will be better? That the old government were fake socialist doesn't make this government friends of the less wealthy...

[odeon]

Since most people accept the legislation, my guess is that they don't find it absurd at all. They don't share your fear of becoming victims of ruthless criminals and power-hungry governments. In fact, since we've lived with such restrictions for quite a while now, without either the power-hungry governments OR the ruthless criminals taking over, I'd say that you're needlessly worried.

I don't care what "people" think. People are absurdly naïve. The criminals are advancing more and more. And I find the government and authorities rather oppressive already. You can never feel safe that something will continue being rather good just because it has been so so far.

I know you don't care what people think. What I don't understand is why you keep bringing this up--you don't care, after all.

Some people are naive. Some are not. You think most people are. I don't. I tend to have a more positive outlook, and it's worked reasonably well for more than 40 years.

[odeon]

It's not as bad as it seems--we finally voted out the government responsible for these changes.

What makes you think that the new government will be better? That the old government were fake socialist doesn't make this government friends of the less wealthy...

See my previous post.

[Litigious]

I know you don't care what people think. What I don't understand is why you keep bringing this up--you don't care, after all.

I care what some people on this board think, and find it good that people like McJ and Scrap agree with me. But I don't care what the majority think, no. They can be fooled into almost anything. Alas.

[odeon]

Fair enough. Do you think the current state of affairs in Europe (with gun restrictions, speed limits and such) will result in revolutions across the continent? Do you hope for this to happen? What motivates you here?

[Litigious]

Fair enough. Do you think the current state of affairs in Europe (with gun restrictions, speed limits and such) will result in revolutions across the continent? Do you hope for this to happen? What motivates you here?

No, the restrictions themselves won't lead to that. The Europeans are spolied and obedient, not just the Swedes but most Europeans, at least in northern and western Europe. But since I hate authorities, I would find it amusing if revolutions really did break out, if I at that time would have get myself proper guns, that is. But usually revolutions bring guns into greater circulation. 

[odeon]

Chaos, then, is pretty much what you want?

You say you want a revolution
 Well you know
 we all want to change the world
 You tell me that it's evolution
 Well you know
 We all want to change the world
 But when you talk about destruction
 Don't you know you can count me out, in
 Don't you know it's gonna be alright
 Alright Alright
 
 You say you got a real solution
 Well you know
 we'd all love to see the plan
 You ask me for a contribution
 Well you know
 We're all doing what we can
 If you want money for people with minds that hate
 All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
 Don't you know it's gonna be alright
 Alright Alright
 
 You say you'll change the constitution
 Well you know
 we'd all love to change your head
 You tell me it's the institution
 Well you know
 You better free your mind instead
 But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
 You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
 Don't you know know it's gonna be alright
 Alright ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT