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Author Topic: The right to bear arms  (Read 21966 times)

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Offline McGiver

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #120 on: November 20, 2006, 07:27:48 AM »
yopu also forgot to mention how they omitted women from the rights to hold public office, or vote.

And a number other details. My point stands.
not so.

on your point about slavery, the civil war happend in large part due to people having the right to bear arms.

the revolutionary war and the minutemen are the same example of why it is necessary for people to have that right.

now, i will admit that the founding fathers never envisioned anything more dangerous than a slow and cumbersome musket.  i am not sure if they thought that the average citizen should own an uzi, or a rocket launcher.
a pistol or a hunting rifle, even a shotgun, yes.  and we should protect that right or die trying.
Misunderstood.

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #121 on: November 20, 2006, 07:51:06 AM »

now, i will admit that the founding fathers never envisioned anything more dangerous than a slow and cumbersome musket.  i am not sure if they thought that the average citizen should own an uzi, or a rocket launcher.
a pistol or a hunting rifle, even a shotgun, yes. 


On the other hand, the government didn't have missiles, nuclear arms, poison gas etc by then.

Quote from: McJagger

and we should protect that right or die trying.


Good. No European/liberal/quasi humanitarian cowardice.  8)


Offline odeon

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #122 on: November 20, 2006, 07:52:31 AM »


Back to school, Litigious. You don't know what the hell you're talking about. most dictators come to power in  ways a lot more sneaky than that. Consider Hitler as an example. It had nothing to do with cowardice. Misinformation, absolutely. Cowardice, no.


I can inform you that I had a 5 in history all the way up in high school and that WWII and Hitler are one of my special interests. It's the
citizens' obligation to keep themselves informed in a democracy. But they chose not to be informed. It's always easier to be passive and let others think for you.

So, with all those good grades, why not use the knowledge you have, instead of bullshitting the readers? Your grades do not make your statement true.


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Quote from: odeon

Cheap propaganda, and not necessarily true. Consider Iraq before the US decided to "liberate" it. How many died there before the war, and how many after?

And I'm not even counting the victims of the daily allied bombs, btw.

Sorry. A true dictatorship is Paradise on earth. Gives an extra spice to life never knowing when you will be arrested, raped, tortured or killed.

I knew you'd say that. Read the above again. I'm not defending dictatures, I'm noting that fewer people died when Iraq was stable, which is true. Defend your position instead of trying to score quickies using cliches.
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Offline odeon

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #123 on: November 20, 2006, 07:56:27 AM »
yopu also forgot to mention how they omitted women from the rights to hold public office, or vote.

And a number other details. My point stands.
not so.

on your point about slavery, the civil war happend in large part due to people having the right to bear arms.

My point was simply to illustrate that the founding fathers had other views most people today would object against.

But surely you are not saying that the gun laws in the US are in place to enable another civil war if things get sufficiently out of hand?


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and we should protect that right or die trying.

A lot of you are dying, yes, but it's not because they defend their right to bear arms.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #124 on: November 20, 2006, 08:04:39 AM »

So, with all those good grades, why not use the knowledge you have, instead of bullshitting the readers? Your grades do not make your statement true.



To choose to let others think for you is a form of cowardice. It's mental and mind cowardice. The Germans did so. They had a democracy that they voted away!

Quote from: odeon

I knew you'd say that. Read the above again. I'm not defending dictatures, I'm noting that fewer people died when Iraq was stable, which is true. Defend your position instead of trying to score quickies using cliches.

I know that is a fact. But I also know that an operation will have to cost some healthy tissue as well.

Of course you can blame the US for first helping that tumour growing and then trying to operate it brutally and more to get control over the body than of concern of the body's health, but that won't help the Iraquis either.

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #125 on: November 20, 2006, 08:10:03 AM »

But surely you are not saying that the gun laws in the US are in place to enable another civil war if things get sufficiently out of hand?


From what I've heard it's not considered legal to interpret the 2th Amendment that way anymore, but what would they do if GWB or some new president got totally out of his minds? Just surrender? If they can't win or at least get even on a president becoming a tyrant it's because they have more restrictions considering guns than the 2th Amendment, not less.

Offline QuirkyCarla

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #126 on: November 20, 2006, 09:10:12 AM »

I've spoken to many Europeans who dislike the USA's policy on guns and agree that it's one of the negative things about my country.

Yes, because most Europeans are cowards. That's how most dictators here came to power in the first place. That's why the Europeans needed American help to stop the war in Yugoslavia and then, as usual, blamed the US instead of thanking them.

They're not cowards, they're smart8)

Offline QuirkyCarla

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #127 on: November 20, 2006, 09:10:44 AM »
It all depends. Your chances of getting attacked also depend on where you live.

They shouldn't. No law abiding citizen should have to fear any part of their own country any time of the day.

In a country ruled by a tyrant every square inch is insecure.

Shouldn't, but it is that way.

Offline odeon

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #128 on: November 20, 2006, 09:38:30 AM »

But surely you are not saying that the gun laws in the US are in place to enable another civil war if things get sufficiently out of hand?


From what I've heard it's not considered legal to interpret the 2th Amendment that way anymore, but what would they do if GWB or some new president got totally out of his minds? Just surrender? If they can't win or at least get even on a president becoming a tyrant it's because they have more restrictions considering guns than the 2th Amendment, not less.

The democratic way is to elect another president, I believe. Also, the congress would surely stop any real nuttiness.

But liberal gun laws or not, a few armed citizens couldn't. You're naive if you think otherwise.
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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #129 on: November 20, 2006, 11:36:13 AM »

But liberal gun laws or not, a few armed citizens couldn't. You're naive if you think otherwise.

There are at least 100 millions armed citizens in the US, probably much more. If every one of them had at least a machine gun and a grenade launcher, plus a lot of extra guns and some proper basical military training, the government could never control the whole country and kill everyone resisting them. The only thing the government could do would be to nuke the whole country, and even then people would survive. And there would be nothing worth "ruling" over, just an enormous 1/3 of a continent wasteland.

Offline odeon

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #130 on: November 20, 2006, 01:03:35 PM »
There are at least 100 millions armed citizens in the US, probably much more. If every one of them had at least a machine gun and a grenade launcher, plus a lot of extra guns and some proper basical military training...

If pigs could fly. They don't. Either.
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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #131 on: November 20, 2006, 02:02:14 PM »
I actually know people who own guns legally who want to get hold of illegal guns "just in case". They're perfectly law abiding in any other respect. It's a shame with a law making otherwise law abiding people criminals.

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #132 on: November 20, 2006, 10:44:42 PM »

Uh, it's just a karma system on a website...it can't really be compared to suicide bombings and/or whatever else you're referring to. Also, that's quite a generalization. Finally, I thought what you said was rude since you were basically saying I don't deserve security or freedom. When people are rude to me, I minus them. It's what the karma system is for.

I was'nt trying to be rude. It's like saying those who stare at the sun deserve to go blind. Freedom is a double edged sword that cuts both directions. Giving up your freedoms for security is a moral abdication of the responsibilities of free living. You're passing the task of armed protection onto mercenaries (Police). If you're dumb enough to do that, you deserve to be bullied by those whom you have empowered.


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I respect that you're not harming anybody, but I'm not speaking about you per se. I'm speaking generally. If there were stricter gun control laws, thousands of deaths could be prevented. Because so many people are allowed to purchase guns, they often fall into the wrong hands.

There's a giant fallicy in this argument called the Mexican border. If you make it more difficult to legaly obtain guns, this will increase thier street valeue to criminals. Once guns become a profitable black-market item, guess where guns will start flooding in from................ we can't even keep 11,000,000 people from crossing. How will we stop firearms??



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Guns are also used millions of times per year, in the hands of private citizens,to thwart crime and save lives.

Can't you give credit where credit is due??

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As I said before, there are other ways people can defend themselves...and the less people who have guns, the less people who *need* them.

You're trying to make tactical decisions here. How can you possible tell if a gun is necessary or not?? The need to use a firearm for self defense is by it's very nature unpredictable.

I was once almost the victim of a follow-home robbery/assault. Thankfully I had my .45 with me. If a confrontation occured, I likely would've come out on top. The point is though, that the situation came with no warning. If my gun and my would-be assailants gun were the only 2 guns on planet earth, it does'nt change the fact that I still needed mine.

More children are killed by thier parents swimming pools than by thier parents guns. It's a fact!!

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We're not talking about swimming pools. Those parents are idiots too.

Anyway, should children still have to die in school shootings and by their own friends'/relatives' guns just because it is less likely than drowning in a swimming pool? ::)

I was making a point about the likelyhood of death from different causes. Accidental gun deaths in the US are at an all time low of about 1,500 per year.

Offline odeon

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #133 on: November 21, 2006, 02:31:00 AM »
No guns = no gun-related deaths or injuries.

What is it about this concept that makes it so hard? ???
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Offline Leto729

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Re: The right to bear arms
« Reply #134 on: November 21, 2006, 03:46:27 AM »
What is truly important that people to respect themselves if the use fire arms or not in the end. If people had the respect for themselves then they would respect other Human Beings in the end too. It is people with out the respect for Life that usually are willing to kill not the other way around. In the end they most likely do not have respect for themselves either.
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