The right to bear arms

[Scrapheap]

The ownership of these weapons aren't going to increase the crime rate

I beg to differ. Compare the number of people killed every year in gun-related violence in the US, where gun laws are very liberal, to  similar statistics in Sweden, where the gun laws are strict. 41 people died in gun-related violence in the year 2000 in Sweden. Compare this to the number of casualties in gun-related violence in the US per year--about 11,000.

Taking into account the difference in population between the two countries, the fact remains that the occurence of gun-related violence in Sweden is one tenth of that in the US.

I rest my case.

I agree with odeon. One of the things I hate about my country is all the morons with guns. Restricting guns is a good idea because it prevents deaths. Yes, that takes away one's "right to bear arms", but since it saves lives, it is worth it. Most successful suicides are from guns. If these people didn't have access to guns, maybe they would get the chance to get help rather than putting their loved ones through that.

Restricting guns has never been proven to prevent deaths, the oppositre case has some evidence in it's favor.

[Scrapheap]

Every suicide is a failure for the society. Not only do suicides cost the state money, but the majority of these people could have been treated.

Are you trying to make the case that the individual is the property of "society" and the state???

[Scrapheap]

I believe that killing someone (even if it is yourself) should be the zenith of ultimate resorts when trying to solve a problem. Most people will agree with that statement,

I for one, can't agree with this. You statement assumes that life is the very most precious thing there is. This is a flawed philosophy for the following reason. If you feel life is most important to you, this opens you up to bullying and other intimidation tactics. If you feel thatfreedom is more important than life, you are harder to bully because you would rather die than to submit to intimidation. Bullies respect this. TRUST me I learned this the hard way!!!

This wouldn't worry me, if everyone was competent enough to deal with the possession of a gun. But it's pretty obvious that it's mostly the opposite.

Can you prove this??

For that reason alone I think it's unbelievable that people other than police officers or other legal human protectors are still allowed to bear arms.

What sort of slave mentality is this??  "legal human protectors"?? EVERY HUMAN HAS THE LEGAL RIGHT TO PROTECT THEMSELVES DUMBASS!!!

[Scrapheap]

There are better ways of protecting oneself than with guns. Guns too often get in the wrong hands (i.e. the hands of children), not to mention all the accidents that can happen with them, and the fact that they can backfire on you. It's not about freedom; it's about safety.

Try telling that to a parent who had a gun in their house that comes home to find their child committed suicide with it. Suicide may be a human right, but as a survivor of multiple suicide attempts, I'm happy I never had access to a gun. I thought my life was unbearable in the past, but I survived it and am doing much better now. The same thing could have happened for other people who chose to take their life, but sadly it's too late for them now.

The greatest threat to young chldren in the home is swimming pools. If you're worried about saving a kids life, you are more likely to save them by filling your pool with concrete than buying a gun safe. That's a fact!!!

[Scrapheap]

No, such criminals will continue to exist. They will go beyond the law to get what they want(that's why their criminals) and those people will always be here, liberal or non-liberal gun policy. However, with a strict gun policy you do diminish the chances for most people to get a gun and thus you diminish the amount of possible killers.

I dont have to cotradict this argument, because it contradicts itsself!!

[Scrapheap]

People are more likely to become murderers if they have the facilities to do it. .

The majority of criminologists would disagree with you in this point!!

[Litigious]

I think that privately owning weapons will only cause harm.  However people who wanna commit crimes will get weapons through the black market.  This might seem like a point supporting legal carrying of weapons.  However I propose something else.  I propose it be legal to buy weapons, and own weapons, but not to have them on your person or in public(except firing ranges and designated hunting areas).  Now you may ask yourself, how can you purchase weapons if you can't carry weapons, well you could have it sent to your home.

Now what this would mean is that incase we need to rebel against the government, we'll probably at the time be having little regard for the law enforcement considering they are part of the government, so incase we really decide to rebel, we can choose to disregard that law, but at every other time, having guns in public usually results in them being misused.  So during peacetime, people that shouldnt be using guns in public will get in trouble.  And gun nuts will still get to enjoy owning guns. 

We have almost that system in Sweden. It's legal to have a gun in your home, your shooting club or by your gun dealer and to carry it the shortest way between two of those, but nothing more. The criminals get guns here anyway.

[Litigious]

That's apple to oranges and you should know better!!

Sweeden is lucky enough not to have the societal problems that have been imported into American culture.

When you analyzie crime statistics in America, a dirty little secret about criminal activity appears. Most criminologists know this and the stats have been published in different sources.

Crime in America follows racial lines. The crime rates for whites in america reflect those of Europe. the crime rates of Asians reflect those in Asia. The crime rates of Mexicans reflect crime rates in Mexico. The crime rates of Blacks reflect those of Africa.......... I don't see how anyone is suprised by this. The fruit after all, never falls far from the tree.........

I thought about writing exactly that, but my fellow countryman might have called me a racist then. It was good that an American brought it up. Of course it's a matter of culture.

[odeon]

Every suicide is a failure for the society. Not only do suicides cost the state money, but the majority of these people could have been treated.

Are you trying to make the case that the individual is the property of "society" and the state???

No.

[odeon]

People are more likely to become murderers if they have the facilities to do it. .

The majority of criminologists would disagree with you in this point!!

So, show me the relevant statistics.

[Nomaken]

Wow, it surprises me that I might have come up with an idea, that some culture somewhere actually does, on my own.  I was guessing either all of my ideas sucked, or every other culture was more competant than I could imagine.

[odeon]

The ownership of these weapons aren't going to increase the crime rate

I beg to differ. Compare the number of people killed every year in gun-related violence in the US, where gun laws are very liberal, to  similar statistics in Sweden, where the gun laws are strict. 41 people died in gun-related violence in the year 2000 in Sweden. Compare this to the number of casualties in gun-related violence in the US per year--about 11,000.

Taking into account the difference in population between the two countries, the fact remains that the occurence of gun-related violence in Sweden is one tenth of that in the US.

I rest my case.

That's apple to oranges and you should know better!!

Sweeden is lucky enough not to have the societal problems that have been imported into American culture.

When you analyzie crime statistics in America, a dirty little secret about criminal activity appears. Most criminologists know this and the stats have been published in different sources.

Crime in America follows racial lines. The crime rates for whites in america reflect those of Europe. the crime rates of Asians reflect those in Asia. The crime rates of Mexicans reflect crime rates in Mexico. The crime rates of Blacks reflect those of Africa.......... I don't see how anyone is suprised by this. The fruit after all, never falls far from the tree.........

Please quote some of the sources and numbers--don't forget the crime rates of blacks in "Africa"* as compared to the blacks in the US.

* Hint: "Africa" is not one country or culture.

[odeon]

That's apple to oranges and you should know better!!

Sweeden is lucky enough not to have the societal problems that have been imported into American culture.

When you analyzie crime statistics in America, a dirty little secret about criminal activity appears. Most criminologists know this and the stats have been published in different sources.

Crime in America follows racial lines. The crime rates for whites in america reflect those of Europe. the crime rates of Asians reflect those in Asia. The crime rates of Mexicans reflect crime rates in Mexico. The crime rates of Blacks reflect those of Africa.......... I don't see how anyone is suprised by this. The fruit after all, never falls far from the tree.........

I thought about writing exactly that, but my fellow countryman might have called me a racist then. It was good that an American brought it up. Of course it's a matter of culture.

Racist.

[Nomaken]

In my experience the fruit can make it an inconvenient distance from the tree.  I mean.. i actually have to get up and walk a ways to get that fruit.

[odeon]

The argument is ridiculous, but a common one. It's often used by NRA activists and other assorted nuts.

Have you seen "Bowling for Columbine"? It opens with Michael Moore opening an account at a bank in order to get a free gun, promised to everyone opening new accounts... I think this little scene explains a lot more about the gun mentality in the US than all that racist bs quoted above.

I'd also recommend the gun nuts to watch the end of that movie, where Charlton Heston, the chairman of the NRA, attempts to explain the statistics in his own way. Hilarious, but also quite sad.