The right to bear arms

[RageBeoulve]

I will make it very simple. Come and try to take away my firearms. I will kill you. Understand me?

And end up in jail?

To be honest man, i'd rather die fighting for my right to bear arms then live in a society which has been stripped of it's ability to defend it's freedom.

[TheoK]

I will make it very simple. Come and try to take away my firearms. I will kill you. Understand me?

And end up in jail?

To be honest man, i'd rather die fighting for my right to bear arms then live in a society which has been stripped of it's ability to defend it's freedom.

That's my boy. 

[odeon]

I will make it very simple. Come and try to take away my firearms. I will kill you. Understand me?

And end up in jail?

To be honest man, i'd rather die fighting for my right to bear arms then live in a society which has been stripped of it's ability to defend it's freedom.

The guns in your society--the firearms owned by private citizens, legally or illegally--aren't used to defend your country's freedom, though, are they?

Against whom would you defend yourself? I very much doubt you could do much if the state decided to change the rules, and if the attack came from outside your country the army would handle it.

[TheoK]

I very much doubt you could do much if the state decided to change the rules,

That thinking is a sure recipe for failure. If the state changes the rules without asking the people, it's the people's goddamn right to attack the state.

[RageBeoulve]

I will make it very simple. Come and try to take away my firearms. I will kill you. Understand me?

And end up in jail?

To be honest man, i'd rather die fighting for my right to bear arms then live in a society which has been stripped of it's ability to defend it's freedom.

The guns in your society--the firearms owned by private citizens, legally or illegally--aren't used to defend your country's freedom, though, are they?

Against whom would you defend yourself? I very much doubt you could do much if the state decided to change the rules, and if the attack came from outside your country the army would handle it.

Valid points o-man. But what about the right to form militia if our freedom is threatened by our own government? It is possible that may happen in the future, and i'd feel a lot better with a way to protect myself.

Plus i'm a hunter. I have lots of guns and I use them all periodically on hunting trips.  

[odeon]

I will make it very simple. Come and try to take away my firearms. I will kill you. Understand me?

And end up in jail?

To be honest man, i'd rather die fighting for my right to bear arms then live in a society which has been stripped of it's ability to defend it's freedom.

The guns in your society--the firearms owned by private citizens, legally or illegally--aren't used to defend your country's freedom, though, are they?

Against whom would you defend yourself? I very much doubt you could do much if the state decided to change the rules, and if the attack came from outside your country the army would handle it.

Valid points o-man. But what about the right to form militia if our freedom is threatened by our own government? It is possible that may happen in the future, and i'd feel a lot better with a way to protect myself.

Yes, I can see why you'd think so, but my point is that the firearms owned by private citizens won't make much of a difference. There would be more blood but such a militia would be fairly powerless. If the state fucks up and something needs to be done, I suspect the key would be to ensure other kinds of resources, the kind that is now beyond reach for anyone but the state.

Plus i'm a hunter. I have lots of guns and I use them all periodically on hunting trips.  

Aye, that I can understand.

[odeon]

I very much doubt you could do much if the state decided to change the rules,

That thinking is a sure recipe for failure. If the state changes the rules without asking the people, it's the people's goddamn right to attack the state.

Always the fanatic, you, which is why most people dismiss your opinions directly. If you'd been prepared to consider other viewpoints than your own we might have had the discussion Rage sees.

Learn from Rage. He is, as you say, brave.

[TheoK]

They have no right to decide whatsoever from the very beginning. The people has never given a state any rights to begin with, like I said in the other thread. They invented "democracy" when they couldn't fool people with religion anymore. But they still got their power in a criminal way to start with, by taking it by force from the people.

[Pyraxis]

Yes, I can see why you'd think so, but my point is that the firearms owned by private citizens won't make much of a difference.

What kind of a scenario are you envisioning? What resources do you think would be more effective?

[RageBeoulve]

I very much doubt you could do much if the state decided to change the rules,

That thinking is a sure recipe for failure. If the state changes the rules without asking the people, it's the people's goddamn right to attack the state.

Always the fanatic, you, which is why most people dismiss your opinions directly. If you'd been prepared to consider other viewpoints than your own we might have had the discussion Rage sees.

Learn from Rage. He is, as you say, brave.

Well. I just consider that other people just might know something I don't, but I voice my opinion. My opinion was formed from a difficult string of past events, but I keep an open mind and consider the fact that billions upon billions of people also have alternate experiences.

I do think you underestimate america's potential for militias though odeon. There are private organizations which hold very large weapons caches, and you have prior sevice men like myself which have been trained to fight previously. Militia might not win against the government, but I think they probably want to avoid such a difficult and bloody conflict. It would not be pleasant.

[TheoK]

In Europe it's extremely different to make people understand that they might have to fight their governments, at least in countries that were never occupied by the commies.

[DirtDawg]

In Europe it's extremely different to make people understand that they might have to fight their governments, at least in countries that were never occupied by the commies.

... or subjects of a deified royal, crowned tyrant of some sort. Remember that the people who live there in this day and age are mostly descended from loyal subjects who chose to stay while all those hopeful ships were sailing to populate the free lands of the New World.



(... or missed the boat.)
 

[odeon]

They have no right to decide whatsoever from the very beginning. The people has never given a state any rights to begin with, like I said in the other thread. They invented "democracy" when they couldn't fool people with religion anymore. But they still got their power in a criminal way to start with, by taking it by force from the people.

Yes dear.

[odeon]

Yes, I can see why you'd think so, but my point is that the firearms owned by private citizens won't make much of a difference.

What kind of a scenario are you envisioning? What resources do you think would be more effective?

Bigger guns, basically.

[odeon]

I very much doubt you could do much if the state decided to change the rules,

That thinking is a sure recipe for failure. If the state changes the rules without asking the people, it's the people's goddamn right to attack the state.

Always the fanatic, you, which is why most people dismiss your opinions directly. If you'd been prepared to consider other viewpoints than your own we might have had the discussion Rage sees.

Learn from Rage. He is, as you say, brave.

Well. I just consider that other people just might know something I don't, but I voice my opinion. My opinion was formed from a difficult string of past events, but I keep an open mind and consider the fact that billions upon billions of people also have alternate experiences.

I do think you underestimate america's potential for militias though odeon. There are private organizations which hold very large weapons caches, and you have prior sevice men like myself which have been trained to fight previously. Militia might not win against the government, but I think they probably want to avoid such a difficult and bloody conflict. It would not be pleasant.

True, it wouldn't. But what makes you think they wouldn't do it?