Slutwalk

[Osensitive1]

However I do agree that it was out of order for a police officer to say what he did.

Yes, out of order, though likely he was thinking along the same lines of my first comment; doesn't mean he thinks it was okay.

Pretty much:  "Women should avoid dressing like sluts in order to not be victimized."

Doesn't translate to 'it's okay to rape women who dress like sluts', though stupid, yes.

[Binty]

Women who dress and act like whores do not deserve rape.  They may invite it but they do not deserve it.  This is why men need to be educated.

I think that most rapists know rape is wrong, but choose to do it anyway. I'm not sure how you can educate a rapist not to rape.

It's not educating the rapist specifically though, it's educating people who think that just because a woman wears revealing clothing, it's okay to rape her.  Those people who absolve the men of any blame and say the woman brought it on herself.

People who think that are jerks, but will convincing them they're wrong actually stop any girls getting raped? If they're not the ones doing the raping.

It will certainly help get more rapists convicted if anything.

[Binty]

However I do agree that it was out of order for a police officer to say what he did.

Yes, out of order, though likely he was thinking along the same lines of my first comment; doesn't mean he thinks it was okay.

Pretty much:  "Women should avoid dressing like sluts in order to not be victimized."

Doesn't translate to 'it's okay to rape women who dress like sluts', though stupid, yes.

That's the thing though, we don't know what he was thinking when he said that and speculating that he probably didn't mean it anyway, just let's him get away with it.

['Butterflies']

Women who dress and act like whores do not deserve rape.  They may invite it but they do not deserve it.  This is why men need to be educated.

I think that most rapists know rape is wrong, but choose to do it anyway. I'm not sure how you can educate a rapist not to rape.

It's not educating the rapist specifically though, it's educating people who think that just because a woman wears revealing clothing, it's okay to rape her.  Those people who absolve the men of any blame and say the woman brought it on herself.

People who think that are jerks, but will convincing them they're wrong actually stop any girls getting raped? If they're not the ones doing the raping.

It will certainly help get more rapists convicted if anything.

That is true.

[Binty]

Also, did anyone actually read the article?    That's what I wanted to talk about, the article itself and the comments underneath it, as I'm still not too sure what stance to take on this.

I'm half tempted to post the conversation I had with TOW about it.

[P7PSP]

Women who dress and act like whores do not deserve rape.  They may invite it but they do not deserve it.  This is why men need to be educated.

You mean the vast majority of men who live their entire life not committing rape anyway? I have made it to 51 years old without committing rape. I am fairly confident that I can refrain from raping women the rest of my life without the benefit of anti rape conditioning.  

What the hell does anti-rape conditioning even mean? 

Read A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess - Ludovico Technique. My point is that men as a group don't generally commit rape, those that do - as Butterfly stated - won't likely refrain from it because of education. If that was all that was required the sob sister techniques to rehabilitate criminals that were tried from the 1940s to the 1970s inclusive would have been successful.

[Binty]

Women who dress and act like whores do not deserve rape.  They may invite it but they do not deserve it.  This is why men need to be educated.

You mean the vast majority of men who live their entire life not committing rape anyway? I have made it to 51 years old without committing rape. I am fairly confident that I can refrain from raping women the rest of my life without the benefit of anti rape conditioning.  

What the hell does anti-rape conditioning even mean? 

Read A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess - Ludovico Technique. My point is that men as a group don't generally commit rape, those that do - as Butterfly stated - won't likely refrain from it because of education. If that was all that was required the sob sister techniques to rehabilitate criminals that were tried from the 1940s to the 1970s inclusive would have been successful.

I stopped reading after that.

[Osensitive1]

It will certainly help get more rapists convicted if anything.

How?

[P7PSP]

Women who dress and act like whores do not deserve rape.  They may invite it but they do not deserve it.  This is why men need to be educated.

You mean the vast majority of men who live their entire life not committing rape anyway? I have made it to 51 years old without committing rape. I am fairly confident that I can refrain from raping women the rest of my life without the benefit of anti rape conditioning.  

 I had no idea you were 51. I've seen your pics. You'ree holding up well for an old boy

Thank you Butterflies.  

[Osensitive1]

Also, did anyone actually read the article?

No, what you posted is more interesting, am sure of it.

[Eclair]

I have mixed views about the whole thing.  Slutwalk was a protest against what a police officer said about rape: "Women should avoid dressing like sluts in order to not be victimized."

Now, I agree that what he said is out of order as it puts all the blame on the woman and absolves the man.  However, there is a slight element of truth to what he said.  I mean, with the way some of the woman dress like, it just screams "FUCK ME".  No, it doesn't immediately equal to "feel free to rape me if you wish" but it DOES put you in the eyes of a man as a target.  We should try to educate men that just because a woman's clothing looks like a "yes" it doesn't actually mean "yes".

Largely my views are in the middle between this article and the comments underneath:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/the-funny-thing-about-the-slutwalk-feminism/

Thoughts?

Does that mean that a girl on a beach wearing a bikini is 'asking for it'?

A man walking around, doing his gardening, with no shirt on, is he 'asking for it'?

My housemate will often walk around with boxers on, no shirt. But if I walked around in shorts and a bikini top, am I a whore and 'asking for it'?

Rape is about power, and the assault of another person's rights to dress, act and look a certain way...or plain just be a female and be attacked.

Old women get raped ffs.

The words 'slut' and 'whore' are so freely associated with women, yet men themselves, if we look at the context of the words, are equally capable of that also.

And really, what is wrong with being a slut, or a whore, whatever that means, if you aren't hurting anyone else deliberately?

Just my random thoughts.

['Butterflies']

There is a point to what the guy said. I don't dress slutty, but if I did, I'd be carefull where I did it. I would avoid walking through dark areas at night and stay on roads where I felt safe.

Same as if I went out for a drink with a lot of money on me. I wouldn't go into some dingy, rough pub in a bad area, and let it be seen that I was carrying lotss of money. Of course it wouldn't give anyone the right to rob me, but I know that it would increase my chances of being robbed.


In an ideal world, we could go about our business knowing that we were safe from others. Sadly we don't live in an ideal world, and the burden of responsibility for our own safety ultimately rests on our own shoulders.

['Butterflies']

Police also tell you to lock your doors and windows, and take precautions against burglars. It doesn't mean that if you don't lock your door that you deserve to be burgled, but of course it does increase your chances of it happening.

[Osensitive1]

^Your points about location are important; vulnerability is more of an issue than dress.

[Binty]

There is a point to what the guy said. I don't dress slutty, but if I did, I'd be carefull where I did it. I would avoid walking through dark areas at night and stay on roads where I felt safe.

Same as if I went out for a drink with a lot of money on me. I wouldn't go into some dingy, rough pub in a bad area, and let it be seen that I was carrying lotss of money. Of course it wouldn't give anyone the right to rob me, but I know that it would increase my chances of being robbed.


In an ideal world, we could go about our business knowing that we were safe from others. Sadly we don't live in an ideal world, and the burden of responsibility for our own safety ultimately rests on our own shoulders.

Thank you!  I agree with everything you wrote.

I'm gonna post my conversation with TOW after all:

TOW: i dunno.. i still don't really agree. i think the woman should be prepared for wolf whistles/comments/whatever, but not more than that  
personally
me: she should be prepared for attention
TOW: yeah, that's what i mean
me: but some attention may lead to negative attention  
and i dunno
TOW: yeah, but i would say there is a distinct line between attention and physical aggression
and what someone wears isn't going to push someone over that line unless they're basically a sociopath to begin with
me: no but say, a woman is at a party
and she's wearing a dress that could double up as a boob tube
she's had a couple of drinks
and so has the guy she's making out with  
he starts trying to slide his hand up her dress  
and she's telling him no  
now, he doesn't have any right to do that  
BUT
the woman's behaviour and looks does send off wrong signals
TOW: again, i would say it's more to do with the couple of drinks/perceived vulnerability
me: but the guy has had some drinks too
do send off*
TOW: which is more related to the guy's own behavior/decisions
me: yes okay, but i'm saying not every guy who rapes is a sociopath
TOW: really?
me: and i'm not taking the rapist's side  
look, i've been in dodgy situations myself
TOW: i know you're not
me: but those were situations I PUT MYSELF in  
and i invited the attention  
i just didn't like it when they tried to go further
and so women are like that  
it's all nice and dandy when guys are all over you and saying they want to fuck you
but when they actually attempt to, it isn't anymore and you get scared  
the fault sometimes is on both sides
TOW: eh i guess, but it's still situational imo... if you're talking solely about dressing a certain way (which was how i took the article), then i disagree that wearing certain clothes is "asking for it".. and nothing (behavior/clothing/whatever) excuses rape or assault
me: clothing+behaviour is sometimes asking for it though  
i was lucky that i never got myself raped  
but i sure did put myself in situations where it would have been possible
TOW: well, i mean, if you put yourself in a bar situation ostensibly looking for sex, then yes, you are knowingly putting yourself in danger. however, i think the article is more referring to women who dress the same way but are raped in a situation outside something like that (like off the street or whatever)
me: i think it's in general  
it's related to the comment  
a police officer made
TOW: i still think behavior/situation/etc. are much bigger factors than clothing
but the whole march and shit is stupid
me: yeah i agree with that