OK, Let's do it again. Why do you Brits have such retarded, faggotty gun laws?

[Yuri Bezmenov]

It's a lot harder to kill if you don't have access to weapons. This is a fact used by many governments to prevent gun-related violence.

There is no way for the US government to stop the black market of firearms that would be created as a result of wide scale gun prohibition. We can't even stop 12 million Mexicans and millions of tons of drugs from coming into our country, much less something as small as a pistol.

So let's hear it odeon, what is your solution to squashing the black market so criminals can't get access to guns??  (this aught to be quite entertaining)

There is a degree of blind desperation that I find fascinating to watch when the pro-gun folks defend their views. It can't be the guns, it must be sociological, it must be because we're so different from everyone else. Anything but the guns.

Back in 1933, a 10 year old kid could walk into a hardware store and walk out with a FULLY AUTOMATIC THOMPSON SUB-MACHINE GUN. What is your explanation as to why there wasn't an epidemic of school shootings back then??  (again, this aught to prove entertaining)

[Yuri Bezmenov]

And yes a weapon does effect whether a person can be a murderer.  It is basic psychology.  A gun depersonalises the act of killing to the point where it is almost a button press.  A knife is far more up close and personal and requires the motivational bar to be somewhat higher.  I think the lack of Drive-by stranglings make this point fairly obvious.

It's pretty obvious that you don't know a damn thing about psychology.   

[Yuri Bezmenov]

  The only thing that pisses me off is the way they pervert maths and statistics to prove that it makes them safer. 

There's no perversion of math necessary. Florida had a significant drop in all cromes after they passed concealed carry reform, that made it easy for any gun owner, with no criminal record, to get a concealed carry permit. The criminals became afraid, because their "victims" started shooting back at them.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

The anti-gun stance, to me, is pure logic. Getting rid of a device that was largely designed to kill people with makes perfect sense to me in a society claiming itself to be civilised.

The flaw in your logic, of course, is how do you get rid of the gun black markets??

In a world of outlawed guns, only the outlaws will have them. 

[Jack]

There's no real answer to that, Pappy, and it probably doesn't matter anyway. There's a few possible negative implications to consider, and the likelihood of potential civil unrest from a government revolt by US militia groups is the most disturbing for me. It's completely understandable that people from another country might not understand how their viewpoints would involve tipping this country on it's ear and ripping up the foundation. There's simply no need for that. One has to consider what is really the purpose, gun bans aren't a purpose but rather a course of action toward a purpose, a course of action which can't be shown as effective, and a course of action which isn't well suited to the US. Sure, existing US gun control measures might not completely calculate for me, but a lot of people on both sides of the gun issue would probably agree it's working very well, and I also can't deny the facts or directly associate those facts to anything else other than gun control. Her majesty said improvements don't happen overnight, but that's exactly what happened with the Brady Act. In 1993 the homicide rate was 9.5, the improvement was visible within the first year, and the improvements haven't stopped coming. The US is by far the best example of effective implementation of gun control, and no one had to change what it means to be an American. Fuck yeah.

[FourAceDeal]

And yes a weapon does effect whether a person can be a murderer.  It is basic psychology.  A gun depersonalises the act of killing to the point where it is almost a button press.  A knife is far more up close and personal and requires the motivational bar to be somewhat higher.  I think the lack of Drive-by stranglings make this point fairly obvious.

It's pretty obvious that you don't know a damn thing about psychology.   

So... It is your opinion that having a gun makes no difference to the likelyhood of you committing the act of murder?  Can you clarify that this is your belief or state your view point in a clearer fashion please. 

[FourAceDeal]

  The only thing that pisses me off is the way they pervert maths and statistics to prove that it makes them safer. 

There's no perversion of math necessary. Florida had a significant drop in all cromes after they passed concealed carry reform, that made it easy for any gun owner, with no criminal record, to get a concealed carry permit. The criminals became afraid, because their "victims" started shooting back at them.

Florida Gun Murders Rise 38 Percent Since 2000: Report

[Yuri Bezmenov]

So... It is your opinion that having a gun makes no difference to the likelyhood of you committing the act of murder? 

I've owned 20+ guns for 20+ years and I've already murdered all the people I wanted to. The grand total? Zero. 

[Yuri Bezmenov]

  The only thing that pisses me off is the way they pervert maths and statistics to prove that it makes them safer. 

There's no perversion of math necessary. Florida had a significant drop in all cromes after they passed concealed carry reform, that made it easy for any gun owner, with no criminal record, to get a concealed carry permit. The criminals became afraid, because their "victims" started shooting back at them.

Florida Gun Murders Rise 38 Percent Since 2000: Report

  The law in question was enacted in 1992. Crime fell between then and 2000.

BTW, Huffington Post is a well known left wing propaganda site.

OK, I just followed the links as far as I could and there are NO ORIGINIAL SOURCES CITED.

The one thing they did mention though is that homicide rates overall are still down from 2000.

So even they admit (if they do indeed have original sources) is that despite the influx if guns, overall murders went down. It's just that guns were used instead of knives or other weapons.

[FourAceDeal]

So... It is your opinion that having a gun makes no difference to the likelyhood of you committing the act of murder? 

I've owned 20+ guns for 20+ years and I've already murdered all the people I wanted to. The grand total? Zero. 

I'm afraid that you misunderstood my question.  I apologise for not being more precise.

In general terms does having access to a gun make you no more likely to take the action of murdering someone than if you only had access to non-firearm weapons? 

[odeon]

It's a lot harder to kill if you don't have access to weapons. This is a fact used by many governments to prevent gun-related violence.

There is no way for the US government to stop the black market of firearms that would be created as a result of wide scale gun prohibition. We can't even stop 12 million Mexicans and millions of tons of drugs from coming into our country, much less something as small as a pistol.

So let's hear it odeon, what is your solution to squashing the black market so criminals can't get access to guns??  (this aught to be quite entertaining)

I don't have a solution to prevent it, but I would say that it would help to start by making things harder. And if you think that's entertaining, good for you. Me, I think it's kind of sad.

There is a degree of blind desperation that I find fascinating to watch when the pro-gun folks defend their views. It can't be the guns, it must be sociological, it must be because we're so different from everyone else. Anything but the guns.

Back in 1933, a 10 year old kid could walk into a hardware store and walk out with a FULLY AUTOMATIC THOMPSON SUB-MACHINE GUN. What is your explanation as to why there wasn't an epidemic of school shootings back then??  (again, this aught to prove entertaining)

Funny how you'd pick 1933. What part of the link I gave earlier (http://www.vakkur.com/hx/guns/guns_kia_79_99.htm)  did you find was so difficult to understand? And again, if you find this entertaining, good for you, but that fact alone is kind of sad.

[Jack]

Funny how you'd pick 1933. What part of the link I gave earlier (http://www.vakkur.com/hx/guns/guns_kia_79_99.htm) 

It's no more funny than picking data from a 1999 blog post, for which the timing of said blog conveniently omits 15 years of progress.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

I don't have a solution to prevent it, but I would say that it would help to start by making things harder. And if you think that's entertaining, good for you. Me, I think it's kind of sad.

As a teenager living in the US, it was easier for me to buy pot than it was to buy a 6-pack of beer. Drug dealers don't ask for ID or make you fill out paperwork. A robust black market in guns will make it easier for criminals to get guns, not harder.

Back in 1933, a 10 year old kid could walk into a hardware store and walk out with a FULLY AUTOMATIC THOMPSON SUB-MACHINE GUN. What is your explanation as to why there wasn't an epidemic of school shootings back then??  (again, this aught to prove entertaining)

Funny how you'd pick 1933. What part of the link I gave earlier (http://www.vakkur.com/hx/guns/guns_kia_79_99.htm)  did you find was so difficult to understand? And again, if you find this entertaining, good for you, but that fact alone is kind of sad.

I read the link and the data doesn't prove what you think it does. The majority of those gun deaths are suicides which made the act of suicide less painfull. That's a good thing in my book.

I picked the year 1933 because that was before the passage of the Firearms Control Act of 1934 which required a special permit to own fully automatic weapons. It was passed because of all the gangster violence surrounding prohibition. The violence decreased not as a result of the gun law of 1934 but because of the repeal of alcohol prohibition.

[Jack]

So... It is your opinion that having a gun makes no difference to the likelyhood of you committing the act of murder? 

I've owned 20+ guns for 20+ years and I've already murdered all the people I wanted to. The grand total? Zero. 

I'm afraid that you misunderstood my question.  I apologise for not being more precise.

In general terms does having access to a gun make you no more likely to take the action of murdering someone than if you only had access to non-firearm weapons? 

Did owning a gun make you more likely to murder someone?

[Icequeen]

So... It is your opinion that having a gun makes no difference to the likelyhood of you committing the act of murder? 

I've owned 20+ guns for 20+ years and I've already murdered all the people I wanted to. The grand total? Zero. 

Personally as someone who owns guns and has been around guns from the time I was small, "if" I ever decided to murder someone I would choose poison.

Shooting is far too messy. 
As an avid gardener I have a variety of plants that would do the job and be far less traceable as to origin.

The black market is alive and well in the US and I doubt any measures to contain it will make much of a difference. When their is a lack of supply for something due to fact that it can no longer be obtained legally, their will always be someone waiting in the corner to cash in on that "lack". Prohibition made a lot of people rich, or they deemed the risk of getting caught well worth the money anyways.

Some of us here live in the middle of nowhere, we don't have CCTV camera's waiting around every corner, the security of living in a gated community, neighborhood watch, some don't even have a "local" police force due to corruption or lack of funding the duties have been farmed out to the next closest community, and maybe every 3rd person we know is hooked on something or has kids that are.

There are responsible gun owners here that have invested in guns the way people in other countries buy gold coins, cars, or jewelry. My father was one, and he owned some very expensive "investments".

Some hand down their investments from generation to generation...taking little johnny or sue out on their first squirrel hunt with the .22 their great-great grandfather used. It is more than a tool of self-defense or violence here, it's a past-time, a hobby, and for some a tradition, no matter how others may view it.

So we outlaw guns tomorrow, and only the outlaws now have guns...and I bring in my collection "possibly" worth more than my car and get a voucher for a free ice cream sundae and a pat on the head telling me what a great, responsible citizen I am for helping reduce the rates of gun violence. Then I go home and fall asleep secure that my baseball bat will save me if some illegally gun toting drug addict breaks into my house at 3:00 am like they have so often around here.

Really?
I don't think so.