OK, Let's do it again. Why do you Brits have such retarded, faggotty gun laws?

[Jack]

No. FourAceDeal said the proof gun control works, is every other Western civilization with gun control.

[Parts]

Without guns people resort to other ways and the casualties can still be very high.  Happy Land fire show what a little container of gasoline will do, 87 dead  

[Jack]

US homicide rates not related to guns are still higher than homicide rates in the UK.

[Parts]

Just found this and thought it would fit the thread nicely The Mistake of Only Comparing US Murder Rates to "Developed" Countries

[Jack]

Just found this and thought it would fit the thread nicely The Mistake of Only Comparing US Murder Rates to "Developed" Countries

Really have no problem with comparing the US to other western countries, but the article has a fair point that it's a rather holier-than-thou attitude to take when discussing the morality based topic of murder, as if the citizens of poor less industrialized nations lack some human capacity for morality because of their economic status. Mentioned before of finding economic correlation to crime to be the most valid when analyzing data, but it does in fact imply poor people are more prone to violence. That's why preferring to view murder as more likely related to cultural standards, and the manner of killing which is deemed as acceptable in a given society.

[DirtDawg]

US homicide rates not related to guns are still higher than homicide rates in the UK.

IF you were so weak as to not know how to use a weapon of any kind, while a HUGE cross section of the population can well defend themselves even with sticks and sling shots and garden tools, why would you NOT end your own life?

I could invite every one of them to a seminar where I teach them how to defend "oneself" with a garden rake or a spatula or a book or a pen or any small tool in hand or how to make anything nearby into a nearly deadly weapon.

Otherwise they can face the music.
 

(OK, maybe it would be a little of a stretch to turn a book into a deadly weapon, especially a paperback, but knowing that you can use the spine of even a paperback to stun significantly an attacker while you make your getaway is kind of important thing to know. And a pen is nothing short of absolutely deadly, if you are threatened.)

[Yuri Bezmenov]

Found that graph yet? Seriously, personally would prefer to be on your side of the debate, but there's nothing to be found which directly connects the availability of firearms to homicide rates in any logical way.

Does this count?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828709/

2 problems with this. First, even the researchers themselves admit that there is merely a correlation and they can't establish a link between the two. And second, they only include firearm homicides and they don't compare them to overall homicide rates. It's entirely possible that homicide rates remained the same and the availability of firearms merely changed the preferred murder weapon.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

Just found this and thought it would fit the thread nicely The Mistake of Only Comparing US Murder Rates to "Developed" Countries

  This puts the nail in the coffin of the argument that other "developed" countries with restrictive gun laws have lower murder rates as a result.

[Jack]

Found that graph yet? Seriously, personally would prefer to be on your side of the debate, but there's nothing to be found which directly connects the availability of firearms to homicide rates in any logical way.

Does this count?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828709/

2 problems with this. First, even the researchers themselves admit that there is merely a correlation and they can't establish a link between the two. And second, they only include firearm homicides and they don't compare them to overall homicide rates. It's entirely possible that homicide rates remained the same and the availability of firearms merely changed the preferred murder weapon.

It's a very comprehensive study and has huge potential to serve as a good example for the argument that fewer guns equals fewer gun related homicides; a much better example than other Western countries where gun reform has taken place. However you're right that they do not attempt to analyze this data alongside general homicide rates. That's really a shame because the study is so otherwise detailed and spanning thirty years, though it may only serve to prove that gun related homicides do in fact involve a gun, and guns are the preferred weapon for murders who have a gun.

[Jack]

2 problems with this. First, even the researchers themselves admit that there is merely a correlation and they can't establish a link between the two.

It's not really a problem with the study, and a sign of fairness that they do. In the last decade the number of US citizens with open and concealed carry permits has nearly tripled, and pro-gun proponents don't mind charting that data alongside declining US murder rates. Those same people would say fewer guns caused the murder spike in the UK post pro-gun reform because citizens were defenseless; have even seen that viewpoint on this very forum. It's all a bunch of nonsense from both sides of the argument, and people are too stuck applying numbers to emotions to accept it's entirely possible guns don't really make anything better or worse. There's nothing that can explain how US homicide rates have reached a fifty year low over the last fifteen years, other than a cultural shift; that's why Jack previously credited technology. Should I find a graph?

[Gopher Gary]

I'm so glad this thread is still going. Thanks for bumping this one, Pappy, I guess it's not really dead after all. 

My dick is so big it has a commemorative stamp. 

[Yuri Bezmenov]

Even I'm getting tired of the dick jokes. 

[Gopher Gary]

 

Even I'm getting tired of the dick jokes. 

It was great at first but would totally be more fun if someone were playing with me with comebacks how my dick is so small.   

[odeon]

You'e just being a dick.

[Gopher Gary]

You mean a colossal dick, right?