Why do you americans have such faggoty gun laws?

[DirtDawg]

Guess that kind of thinking makes me a Faggot ...


 :lol:

[Osensitive1]

Banning personal weaponry never works anywhere.

You already know my views on gunlaws in the US are much the same as yours, but yes, it does seem to work there. It's cultural, like Butterflies said. Guns are bad is programmed into views of their socity. That's why I said very early on in this thread that someone who has been raised without guns will never understand those who were raised with them; but as for banning them, the sheer number of unregistered guns in the US makes the idea absurd.

['Butterflies']

The only thing that I know for sure is, that our own gun laws should remain.

This is possibly the very first sensible thing you have ever posted.

I have to agree regarding our own gun laws.

They  (the laws regarding ownership, etc) should remain or better yet, be set back to The Second Amendment of our own constitution, thus removing all later restrictions.

I applaud the possibility of dualism in your thinking, but ask you to think this through and maybe tell us why one set of FREEDOM laws is good for one set of people and NOT good for all people.

I am not convinced that I have ever met a person that does not have a right to defend his/her own life and further his/her own freedom.

Firstly, you do know I'm British? Scottish, now living in N.Ireland. I meant that our gun laws should stay as they are. I honestly don't don't know whether your gun laws should stay as they are, or not.


For me, guns are not a freedom issue. They are a public safety issue. I can understand that in your country gun crime is out of control, and many of you feel that the only way to keep yourselves and your family safe is to own a gun. Basically to fight fire with fire. I can understand that if America banned guns tomorrow, the criminals would keep their guns, and possibly find it easy to replace those guns as they broke. American criminals probably have such a culture of gun ownership that there would be no way of removing guns from the criminal element. If you ban guns, then you would possibly only be removing them from the law abiders. It may create a system where the bad guys have weapons and the good guys don't. This would not be good.

Britain is a completely different situation though. We do not have a culture of gun ownership. Our criminals don't have a culture of gun ownership. If you allow people to own guns, then you obviously allow criminals to own guns. If someone breaks into my home, I know I'll lose some stuff. The insurance will pay up, and nobody is likely to get hurt. If the homeowner has a gun, and the intruder has a gun, then one of us is likely to die. I would much rather nobody had guns, than everyone have guns. There is no way of ensuring that good people have guns and bad people don't. I am certain that allowing gun ownership would only create a more violent society.

Also, and possibly most importantly, we both live in a democracy. In my country, the vast majority do not want to introduce guns to our society. This should be respected. As far as I know, the majority of Americans want to be allowed guns. This also should be respected.

Didn't really think she was saying one law is good for one and bad for another, but has realized banning just might not work here.

Yup. That's pretty much what I mean.



And I post plenty of sensible stuff. You just don't read it

['Butterflies']

Didn't really think she was saying one law is good for one and bad for another, but has realized banning just might not work here.

Banning personal weaponry never works anywhere.




Do you think for an instant that there are not criminal elements within the borders of literally EVERY  "gun banned"  society who do not keep guns for their own interests?

Seriously?

Of course not. There are no criminal elements who think that they should either.

Yes. There are people in Britain that own guns. They tend not to be the type of people who break into peoples houses though.

OK, the part of Britain I currently live in is a slightly different matter. Guns are used here by the paramilitaries. However, legalizing guns in a place that is never more than one step away from civil war would only make things worse.

[eris]

As far as I know, the majority of Americans want to be allowed guns. This also should be respected.

I do think it is a majority, but only a slight majority.

Well, when you talk about "majority" that really only applies to people that vote. Most people DONT.

So, I think the country is about 70% Democrat - usually meaning gun control. BUT, Democrats (and poor people) dont vote.

So. who knows.

[Semicolon]

The only thing that I know for sure is, that our own gun laws should remain.

This is possibly the very first sensible thing you have ever posted.

I have to agree regarding our own gun laws.

They  (the laws regarding ownership, etc) should remain or better yet, be set back to The Second Amendment of our own constitution, thus removing all later restrictions.

I applaud the possibility of dualism in your thinking, but ask you to think this through and maybe tell us why one set of FREEDOM laws is good for one set of people and NOT good for all people.

I am not convinced that I have ever met a person that does not have a right to defend his/her own life and further his/her own freedom.

Firstly, you do know I'm British? Scottish, now living in N.Ireland. I meant that our gun laws should stay as they are. I honestly don't don't know whether your gun laws should stay as they are, or not.


For me, guns are not a freedom issue. They are a public safety issue. I can understand that in your country gun crime is out of control, and many of you feel that the only way to keep yourselves and your family safe is to own a gun. Basically to fight fire with fire. I can understand that if America banned guns tomorrow, the criminals would keep their guns, and possibly find it easy to replace those guns as they broke. American criminals probably have such a culture of gun ownership that there would be no way of removing guns from the criminal element. If you ban guns, then you would possibly only be removing them from the law abiders. It may create a system where the bad guys have weapons and the good guys don't. This would not be good.

Britain is a completely different situation though. We do not have a culture of gun ownership. Our criminals don't have a culture of gun ownership. If you allow people to own guns, then you obviously allow criminals to own guns. If someone breaks into my home, I know I'll lose some stuff. The insurance will pay up, and nobody is likely to get hurt. If the homeowner has a gun, and the intruder has a gun, then one of us is likely to die. I would much rather nobody had guns, than everyone have guns. There is no way of ensuring that good people have guns and bad people don't. I am certain that allowing gun ownership would only create a more violent society.

Also, and possibly most importantly, we both live in a democracy. In my country, the vast majority do not want to introduce guns to our society. This should be respected. As far as I know, the majority of Americans want to be allowed guns. This also should be respected.

Not quite. I, as a person, have a right to not have criminals break into my house. In Britain, the police and the courts enforce this right. In America, the police and the courts enforce this, but citizens also enforce their rights. I do not have to tolerate someone trying to take my stuff, just because the police desire a monopoly on violence. I can stand up for myself, and I can use force to do so. This also works against governments: I have a right to protect myself from government oppression. This right includes free speech, the right to vote, the right to petition, etc. In my view, the government of Great Britain is oppressive. You do not have the same rights that I have, as an American citizen. If the British government decided to become an oppressive dictatorship and ignore the rights of its citizens, British citizens would have a greatly reduced ability to do anything about it.

['Butterflies']

As far as I know, the majority of Americans want to be allowed guns. This also should be respected.

I do think it is a majority, but only a slight majority.

Well, when you talk about "majority" that really only applies to people that vote. Most people DONT.

So, I think the country is about 70% Democrat - usually meaning gun control. BUT, Democrats (and poor people) dont vote.

So. who knows.

I always assumed gun laws differed depending on what state you were in,  with the predominantly Republican states having little or no gun control, and the states that favour the Democrats favouring tighter gun control.

[eris]

As far as I know, the majority of Americans want to be allowed guns. This also should be respected.

I do think it is a majority, but only a slight majority.

Well, when you talk about "majority" that really only applies to people that vote. Most people DONT.

So, I think the country is about 70% Democrat - usually meaning gun control. BUT, Democrats (and poor people) dont vote.

So. who knows.

I always assumed gun laws differed depending on what state you were in,  with the predominantly Republican states having little or no gun control, and the states that favour the Democrats favouring tighter gun control.

yes the laws vary from state to state, but there are certain "federal" laws, banning things like automatic weapons and such thing. It is still a debate on a national level.


Often when I have voted, I have been poll'ed about gun control ( or gay marriage , etc)

['Butterflies']

The only thing that I know for sure is, that our own gun laws should remain.

This is possibly the very first sensible thing you have ever posted.

I have to agree regarding our own gun laws.

They  (the laws regarding ownership, etc) should remain or better yet, be set back to The Second Amendment of our own constitution, thus removing all later restrictions.

I applaud the possibility of dualism in your thinking, but ask you to think this through and maybe tell us why one set of FREEDOM laws is good for one set of people and NOT good for all people.

I am not convinced that I have ever met a person that does not have a right to defend his/her own life and further his/her own freedom.

Firstly, you do know I'm British? Scottish, now living in N.Ireland. I meant that our gun laws should stay as they are. I honestly don't don't know whether your gun laws should stay as they are, or not.


For me, guns are not a freedom issue. They are a public safety issue. I can understand that in your country gun crime is out of control, and many of you feel that the only way to keep yourselves and your family safe is to own a gun. Basically to fight fire with fire. I can understand that if America banned guns tomorrow, the criminals would keep their guns, and possibly find it easy to replace those guns as they broke. American criminals probably have such a culture of gun ownership that there would be no way of removing guns from the criminal element. If you ban guns, then you would possibly only be removing them from the law abiders. It may create a system where the bad guys have weapons and the good guys don't. This would not be good.

Britain is a completely different situation though. We do not have a culture of gun ownership. Our criminals don't have a culture of gun ownership. If you allow people to own guns, then you obviously allow criminals to own guns. If someone breaks into my home, I know I'll lose some stuff. The insurance will pay up, and nobody is likely to get hurt. If the homeowner has a gun, and the intruder has a gun, then one of us is likely to die. I would much rather nobody had guns, than everyone have guns. There is no way of ensuring that good people have guns and bad people don't. I am certain that allowing gun ownership would only create a more violent society.

Also, and possibly most importantly, we both live in a democracy. In my country, the vast majority do not want to introduce guns to our society. This should be respected. As far as I know, the majority of Americans want to be allowed guns. This also should be respected.

Not quite. I, as a person, have a right to not have criminals break into my house. In Britain, the police and the courts enforce this right. In America, the police and the courts enforce this, but citizens also enforce their rights. I do not have to tolerate someone trying to take my stuff, just because the police desire a monopoly on violence. I can stand up for myself, and I can use force to do so. This also works against governments: I have a right to protect myself from government oppression. This right includes free speech, the right to vote, the right to petition, etc. In my view, the government of Great Britain is oppressive. You do not have the same rights that I have, as an American citizen. If the British government decided to become an oppressive dictatorship and ignore the rights of its citizens, British citizens would have a greatly reduced ability to do anything about it.

The idea of rising up against an oppressive government seems to be something I hear a lot of Americans talking about. It's an idea that seems to be ingrained in the American psyche. We don't seem to have that idea in our country. If we don't like our government, we can elect a different one. Even if we were allowed guns, and our government did become oppressive, I don't think we would rise up.

You are right about Amercan freedom, you guys do seem to have a different type of government. You may have more freedom, but at a cost, it seems easier to totally fail in your society. We have safety nets, we have welfare for the poor, although it is getting constantly eroded. We have the NHS, although it too is being constantly eroded.

However, I've never been able to fully reconcile the fact that America locks up so many minor criminals, with the idea of America being such a free country.

[DirtDawg]

Banning personal weaponry never works anywhere.

You already know my views on gunlaws in the US are much the same as yours, but yes, it does seem to work there. It's cultural, like Butterflies said. Guns are bad is programmed into views of their socity. That's why I said very early on in this thread that someone who has been raised without guns will never understand those who were raised with them; but as for banning them, the sheer number of unregistered guns in the US makes the idea absurd.

Sorry, Jack.  I do not know who you are.

If I know you by another screenname, then I am a bit out of date and it would follow that being here more often (as I once was) would help.

I am glad to find another ally, at any rate.

[Osensitive1]

Yes, apologies, was Osensitive1 before. Forgot you've been away a bit.

[Meadow]

Yes, apologies, was Osensitive1 before. Forgot you've been away a bit.

So Jack is Osensitive1? okay

[eris]

Yes, apologies, was Osensitive1 before. Forgot you've been away a bit.

So Jack is Osensitive1? okay

yeah. and I recently changed my name too. I used to be General Razorbeard.

[Osensitive1]

['Butterflies']

Yes, apologies, was Osensitive1 before. Forgot you've been away a bit.

So Jack is Osensitive1? okay

And I was Temple Grandin