Why do you americans have such faggoty gun laws?

[Semicolon]

Let us argue about something.

Be careful what you wish for.

[DirtDawg]

Let us argue about something.

Be careful what you wish for.

Are you kidding me?

Tig is awesome!

[TheoK]

Oh, I'm so tired. But more on this topic:

Guns are not totally banned in any European country, but gun ownership is not a right in any European country, maybe except for Switzerland. In every European country except for Switzerland you need a license for every real firearm, and in Switzerland you must now buy guns from other private citizens to get through the loophole in their gun law. Then it's still legal to have it without a license.

In most European countries you must "justify" why you want to own a gun. In many or even most countries self-defense is usually a reason to deny a person a license, how twisted that might sound from an American point of view.

There is no right to carry a loaded gun in public in most European countries, so even with a legal gun, the law is against you. You are allowed to hunt and shoot on targets of paper but not defend yourself. And the worst thing is that even among gun owners that view is usually looked upon as correct(!) So the whole European view on guns is twisted in several dimensions. Most Europeans have some kind of "subject mentality" instead of a "citizen mentality", I think.

But unfortunately I doubt that the American people could defeat a tyrannical government anyway. Maybe succesful guerilla warfare in a few very rural areas but not to win a war. But the principle of the 2nd Amendment is of course 100% correct.

[Scrapheap]

In many or even most countries self-defense is usually a reason to deny a person a license, how twisted that might sound from an American point of view.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Goverments always declare a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.

By protecting yourself, you threaten that monopoly. It isn't about right or wrong, it's about who's "allowed" to have power. 

[TheoK]

In many or even most countries self-defense is usually a reason to deny a person a license, how twisted that might sound from an American point of view.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Goverments always declare a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.

By protecting yourself, you threaten that monopoly. It isn't about right or wrong, it's about who's "allowed" to have power. 

Well, I know that. A few other Swedes know that too. But most people here say that you are insane and probably a presumtive mass-murderer if you tell it to them. The brainwash has gone on for decades here by now.

[Parts]

Licensing, carrying buying and such in the US is somewhat confusing as all the states have different laws.  Me in Ct could with little trouble get a concealed carry permit for a handgun but the bordering states NY and Mass are very strict in their laws and you can be arrested for just having in in your luggage in the trunk of your car

[TheoK]

Licensing, carrying buying and such in the US is somewhat confusing as all the states have different laws.  Me in Ct could with little trouble get a concealed carry permit for a handgun but the bordering states NY and Mass are very strict in their laws and you can be arrested for just having in in your luggage in the trunk of your car

In Europe you can be sure that firearms must be licensed in every country except for Switzerland. The only non-licensed guns allowed are tasers, blank cartridge guns and teargas, and only in a few countries like Germany, Austria and a few states in Eastern Europe. In countries like Sweden and the UK even pepper-spray is illegal without a license, but you won't get a license for it anyway, since you still aren't allowed to have a gun of any kind for self-defense. 

[Parts]

You need no license for long guns in CT or any other state as far as I know.  I drove part of my brothers extensive collection to NY when he moved Pistols are the ones that are more regulated.  My brothers are both big hunters and I know one has several shotguns in his car right now as it is season for when he goes hunting almost every weekend

[Scrapheap]

In many or even most countries self-defense is usually a reason to deny a person a license, how twisted that might sound from an American point of view.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Goverments always declare a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.

By protecting yourself, you threaten that monopoly. It isn't about right or wrong, it's about who's "allowed" to have power. 

Well, I know that. A few other Swedes know that too. But most people here say that you are insane and probably a presumtive mass-murderer if you tell it to them. The brainwash has gone on for decades here by now.

Self Defense is agression
War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strenght.

[TheoK]

Yes.

An example. A conversation between me and an anti-gunner (upper middle-age narrow-minded female on top of all) on a Swedish board:

She: "Guns are evil".

I: "Good. Let's ban them all then. We should start with the cops and military, since they have killed hundreds of millions of people just during the last 100 years."

She: "The police should have guns, of course. They must fight the criminals."

I: "So why don't you want law-abiding people to be able to defend themselves? If you admit there are dangerous criminals, decent, law-abiding people should have the right to protect their lives and property, don't you think? It's fully understandable if you don't want criminals to be armed, but why don't you want law-abiding persons to have guns?"

She: "I think the gun law should be harder than it already is. A strict gun law prevents crimes. Private citizens should not be allowed to own a gun if they aren't hunters."

 

[Scrapheap]

Yes.

An example. A conversation between me and an anti-gunner (upper middle-age narrow-minded female on top of all) on a Swedish board:

She: "Guns are evil".

I: "Good. Let's ban them all then. We should start with the cops and military, since they have killed hundreds of millions of people just during the last 100 years."

She: "The police should have guns, of course. They must fight the criminals."

I: "So why don't you want law-abiding people to be able to defend themselves? If you admit there are dangerous criminals, decent, law-abiding people should have the right to protect their lives and property, don't you think? It's fully understandable if you don't want criminals to be armed, but why don't you want law-abiding persons to have guns?"

She: "I think the gun law should be harder than it already is. A strict gun law prevents crimes. Private citizens should not be allowed to own a gun if they aren't hunters."

 

That sounds like the gun debate that was going on here when I first joined. I was debating someone from Europe (Kiss_my_AS) and she tried to make the same "point". 

I think she used the term "legal protectors".

[TheoK]

Yes, legal protectors like NKVD, KGB, Gestapo, STASI, SS. Very legal and very protective indeed.

You simply can't argue with someone who is brainwashed to believe that the state impossibly can do anything wrong, even if history again and again and again shows the opposite.

[DirtDawg]

Oh, I'm so tired. But more on this topic:

Guns are not totally banned in any European country, but gun ownership is not a right in any European country, maybe except for Switzerland. In every European country except for Switzerland you need a license for every real firearm, and in Switzerland you must now buy guns from other private citizens to get through the loophole in their gun law. Then it's still legal to have it without a license.

In most European countries you must "justify" why you want to own a gun. In many or even most countries self-defense is usually a reason to deny a person a license, how twisted that might sound from an American point of view.

There is no right to carry a loaded gun in public in most European countries, so even with a legal gun, the law is against you. You are allowed to hunt and shoot on targets of paper but not defend yourself. And the worst thing is that even among gun owners that view is usually looked upon as correct(!) So the whole European view on guns is twisted in several dimensions. Most Europeans have some kind of "subject mentality" instead of a "citizen mentality", I think.

But unfortunately I doubt that the American people could defeat a tyrannical government anyway. Maybe succesful guerilla warfare in a few very rural areas but not to win a war. But the principle of the 2nd Amendment is of course 100% correct.

Thank you.

Obviously, as private citizens, we could no longer conceive of the defeat of a modern government (most particularly our own, for fucks sake - no other country on the planet could either, for that matter.) determined to stamp out freedoms, but a troubled governmental leadership that is experiencing turmoil within its own ranks and just needs to confirm support from local militia? 


Again, there is not another country on the globe populated with citizenry who can begin to think in terms of protecting personal freedoms on a moment by moment basis.


America Rocks!!

[Adam]

Yes, legal protectors like NKVD, KGB, Gestapo, STASI, SS. Very legal and very protective indeed.

You simply can't argue with someone who is brainwashed to believe that the state impossibly can do anything wrong, even if history again and again and again shows the opposite.

I can't see that happening here any time soon though

Gestapo/KGB types I mean

I know you will say I should know better and that it will happen soon, but I just can't see it myself

[DirtDawg]

Yes, legal protectors like NKVD, KGB, Gestapo, STASI, SS. Very legal and very protective indeed.

You simply can't argue with someone who is brainwashed to believe that the state impossibly can do anything wrong, even if history again and again and again shows the opposite.

I can't see that happening here any time soon though

Gestapo/KGB types I mean

I know you will say I should know better and that it will happen soon, but I just can't see it myself

So get another pet.


I will seek out more efficient ways of readying ordinance.