Is it all about being right?

[Pyraxis]

Okay, new topic, because the system requests that you don't add to threads that are over 120 days old 

Discuss. What is Intensity, today? How about tomorrow? And never mind the past; this is about what it is, now, and what it should be. People have left and others have joined. We won't be going back cos we shouldn't. It's not healthy.

Me, I still think that it's about enabling the spazzes cos we won't moderate them unless required to do so by the TOS (bestiality, that sort of thing). It's the place where we can say what's on our minds and be chastised for it. It's the place where we can speak our minds or choose to post mindless banter. It's the place for high Internet drama, and it's the place for sadness and quiet reflection (well, it could be). It's not for the sensitive type, but these days I wonder if it's because of a lack of interest rather than actual fear.

It's also just another message board and as such, not the end of the world.

How exactly does it enable the spazzes? It doesn't seem to be about enabling anyone at the moment except the admins. The way things are working right now, the behavior of the most active admins (yes Odeon and Callaway) encourages the members to behave in ridiculous childish ways. The admins already have an advantage, having access to parts of the system that members can't use. They do use this advantage in the middle of callouts when they judge someone's behavior to have gotten out of hand. Odeon and Callaway in particular have intelligence and language abilities beyond many of the people they argue with. I believe that with that advantage comes the responsibility to use it wisely, or increase the general dysfunction in people's interactions.

A person with lower intelligence and literacy doesn't stand much hope of winning a callout based on rational argument. So instead the only paths open are bullheaded stubbornness, spamming, blindly ignoring evidence, etc. This is going to remain true as long as the most intelligent people insist ad absurdum on not only being right, but attempting to force the loser to admit it. It's that same insistence that contributes to the things that suck the most about being here.

People, can you not tell when somebody's beaten? Is it really necessary to grind them into the dirt? Am I idealistic to expect leaders to care more about enabling people than feeding their own already bloated egos?

[Semicolon]

This will be interesting.

[Adam]

Difference with this place and most other places with "leaders" is that they're not really leaders. I dunno about Callaway, but I'm pretty sure that odeon just posts as any other member would do (except when he's doing admin stuff obviously). I mean I don't think he views himself as some kind of leader of a community as such, so shouldn't have any more expectations placed on him than anyone else posting here

I agree though about admins having access to parts of the system that others can't use. That's pretty unfair if used in a callout, but we can't exactly open everything up to the whole membership

Admins shouldn't be required to behave any "better" than anyone else when challenged imo

[Pyraxis]

Difference with this place and most other places with "leaders" is that they're not really leaders. (...)

Admins shouldn't be required to behave any "better" than anyone else when challenged imo

It would be nice if it could be separated like that. I don't know what it would take to convince people to think of them like regular members though. Every fricking conspiracy theory seems to somehow involve the abuse of power. I can definitely see the point about an admin being just like any other member in a callout, no separate behavior standards. Actually I think to a degree that is important, or else it's no fun being an admin at all. Since it's not a paid position there has to be some other payoff.

But. There's a cycle here that imo needs to be broken in order to make the place more fun. The point still stands about the skill imbalance encouraging dysfunctional trollike behavior.

[Al Swearegen]

Hey I think if we are prepared to come her then we ought to be prepared to back ourselves. Whether we are or consider ourselves stupider or not.
Pyraxis I have a lower IQ than either Callaway or Odeon. I have not got an admin panel. I have argued with both in the past and no doubt will in the future. None of this bothers me. Why?

The thing is too, by what you are saying "That it is unfair because they are smart and confident and so on. What you have not done is look at the alternative. If they were dumb and easily lead and had poor understanding of the admin panel and so on. How well do you think this forum would go? You aren't suggesting this would be better, you would be mad to. What you are doing though is presupposing the alternative is crappy. I don't agree.

[Parts]

As to access to parts of the site otherwise restricted there is not anything there of real value in a call out.  IP numbers and email but what good is that?  Callaways advantage is not so much as being an admin but her use of the search feature and anyone can use that.  Very few things have been judged out of hand and dealt with with the babblzier or sinbining I prefer the latter.  I do agree some people do not know when to stop on both sides

[Adam]

Callaways advantage is not so much as being an admin but her use of the search feature and anyone can use that. 

That's a good point actually. Callaway gets her reputation because she's good at her research, which is nothing to do with her position

[Adam]

Also if I argue with odeon or callaway, I wouldn't want then dumbing it down for me just because they're more intelligent than I am. As I wouldn't with anyone else here (or offline). For one thing, I wouldn't learn anything if i was babied, but also it would be pretty patronising.

[Pyraxis]

Hm ok.

Soph I'm not talking about patronizing people by babying them. I agree that would be pretty useless.

But I don't think proving you're right about the most minute of details is empowering for anybody. Knowing when to stop is a really important skill in a conflict - so you can call your boss out without getting your ass fired, for example, or so you can deal with fights with your partner without breaking up every time there's a disagreement. It's not just about the facts of the matter. There's interplay of emotions.

@Sir Les - yeah that's true, it would suck worse if the admins weren't smart. But the dogpiling of Richard was ridiculous.

[renaeden]

It wasn't just admins that dogpiled richard.

[Adam]

ok I agree with what you're saying - disregard my nonsense

I think it's  hard to stop yourself in a conflict though, even when you do know when. especially if the people involved are very stubborn

[renaeden]

[Adam]

 

[Al Swearegen]

Hm ok.

Soph I'm not talking about patronizing people by babying them. I agree that would be pretty useless.

But I don't think proving you're right about the most minute of details is empowering for anybody. Knowing when to stop is a really important skill in a conflict - so you can call your boss out without getting your ass fired, for example, or so you can deal with fights with your partner without breaking up every time there's a disagreement. It's not just about the facts of the matter. There's interplay of emotions.

@Sir Les - yeah that's true, it would suck worse if the admins weren't smart. But the dogpiling of Richard was ridiculous.

Ridiculous? It was priceless comedy! 
Hell I will hold myself completely accountable for this. But I did not jump on him because everyone else was. I just liked to do it regardless. That may make me mean or cruel or ridiculous but it makes me happy.
If someone is a dick and hold radicalised or stupid opinions they can expect people to jump on them. Look at Duke calling out Ian for being black. Height of fail and he will get a lot of people not agree with him and therefore a lot of individuals, individually piling on him share commonly. It does not mean we are piling on them BECAUSE others are but because we each share that value.

It would similarly be silly to bar anyone coming late into the exchange from joining in because someone else said something. So again I don't know if you are looking at the alternative or seeing if perhaps you have a preference to a different approach or just finding fault?

[Callaway]

I guess we should all follow Pyraxis' example in her callout with Lucifer and make sure we call out or are called out only by people who are our intellectual superiors.

Heaven forbid we should be smarter than someone who repeatedly accuses us of some ridiculous wrongdoing, contrary to all the evidence otherwise.


I think if someone calls me out, they have to accept the risk that comes with that.  I'm not going to "tie half my brain behind my back" to make things more equal if I believe the person has a lower IQ than mine.  Nor would I expect someone I called out to do that for me if their IQ was higher than mine.

I started out giving Richard the benefit of the doubt and I looked in the mod log to help him figure out what might have happened but I'm not about to admit that I did something I didn't do.  Short of that, I don't know what I could have done to end the argument when he decided to call me out again over something we had already resolved the first time.