ARE WE BULLIES HERE?

[odeon]

That's how I read it, too, Lucifer.

Their position(robert at least, i dont know about ascan and omega), that we are bullies, implies to me at least that they believe we are inherently mean, spiteful people.  It would be like saying we were schizophrenic, you don't behave schizophrenically, you either are schizophrenic or you aren't.  However just because we have bullied people doesn't mean we are inherently mean spiteful people.  We were just being mean, which we could choose not to be.

I must be thick or something, cos I didn't get this either.

[Nomaken]

There is a difference between being A bully, and bullying someone.  You may in one sense be a bully to engage in bullying, but robert seems to be saying that we are only bullies, at all times.  And that our status of being a bully does not end once we stop bullying someone.  We wouldn't be nice to someone else, even if we liked them, because we ARE bullies.  It is like the difference between being stupid, and doing something stupid.  You can be a genius, and work with men of excellence and accidentally program your lander in feet, and do your calculations in meters.

I mean, if robert was saying that we were mean to fluorescent and happeh, and he wants us to apologize, he'd sort of have an argument.  But he isn't saying we were mean, he is saying we can only BE mean, and he believes he must stop us from being able to be mean to people in the future.

[odeon]

Ah, OK. I see what you mean now. Thanks.

[McGiver]

There is a difference between being A bully, and bullying someone.  You may in one sense be a bully to engage in bullying, but robert seems to be saying that we are only bullies, at all times.  And that our status of being a bully does not end once we stop bullying someone.  We wouldn't be nice to someone else, even if we liked them, because we ARE bullies.  It is like the difference between being stupid, and doing something stupid.  You can be a genius, and work with men of excellence and accidentally program your lander in feet, and do your calculations in meters.

I mean, if robert was saying that we were mean to fluorescent and happeh, and he wants us to apologize, he'd sort of have an argument.  But he isn't saying we were mean, he is saying we can only BE mean, and he believes he must stop us from being able to be mean to people in the future.

then we shouldn't have to apologise.

we should just make an effort to learn from our mistakes.

You can be a genius, and work with men of excellence and accidentally program your lander in feet, and do your calculations in meters.

there is a difference.  what you used an example above is an obvious mistake, since it requires a concrete solution.
if people don't believe they were mean (ie: they were just holding people ccountable for their words), then they were actually doing what is right, according to their own set of principles....

[Nomaken]

I am not saying they were wrong to say what they did.  I am saying that they did effectively bully those people, totally unintentionally.  I don't think they should be held to blame for bullying, but i think that they should recognize how their collective actions affected robert.

And I don't think we have to apologize, I am not even asking you guys to apologize, I think that everyone on here should just recognize their mistakes, robert should recognize his mistakes, and we should just move on.  But I think apologizing would help, and the first to apologize would be making, in my opinion, a very honorable and brave sacrifice.

And about the lander thing, that was a bit of humor, because nasa actually did make that mistake with the mars lander, but i forget if it was the calculations that were in meters or the programming.

[McGiver]

I am not saying they were wrong to say what they did.  I am saying that they did effectively bully those people, totally unintentionally.  I don't think they should be held to blame for bullying, but i think that they should recognize how their collective actions affected robert.

And I don't think we have to apologize, I am not even asking you guys to apologize, I think that everyone on here should just recognize their mistakes, robert should recognize his mistakes, and we should just move on.  But I think apologizing would help, and the first to apologize would be making, in my opinion, a very honorable and brave sacrifice.

And about the lander thing, that was a bit of humor, because nasa actually did make that mistake with the mars lander, but i forget if it was the calculations that were in meters or the programming.

personally, i think that there are others, who are closer to robin, who should have to accept responsibility for how their inaction affected robert.

[QuirkyCarla]

I think robert should apologize to dunc and P.I.

[purposefulinsanity]

I think robert should apologize to dunc and P.I.

Thanks, but I don't want an apology.  All I want is both sides to recognise that they didn't act as well as they could have.  I believe that the so-called 'bullies' have shown they do recognise that, but the is fault on both sides.  People get angry and perhaps say things more bluntly than they would normally, that's just human nature.  I can't see this getting any better until all involved admit that this mess has gone far enough and that no-one was an innocent party in all this.

[Nomaken]

I would like to take full responsibility for whatever in the fuck I said wrong.  Although I already tried that and it appears robert doesn't think I said anything wrong. ... Damn.

[Lucifer]

i sort of hate to say this, but i don't believe i either did any "bullying", or am even accused of "bullying" robertN (inverted commas, cos i'm using what's passing for the definition here, in this thread).  so no apology isneeded from me.  i believe robert is saying i "bullied" flo, and i don' think this is the issue here.

perhaps someone who's in contact with robert could clarify that, if anyone gives a fuck.  i don't, as my cupboard is bare of apologies, and they can't deliver more for simply ages.

[odeon]

I'm not a bully. I'm just plain mean.

[Chaos]

There's all kinds of bullies in the world, some are not so obvious!

[Callaway]

There's all kinds of bullies in the world, some are not so obvious!

That is an interesting point, Chaos.  I wonder if you would like to elaborate.

[Leto729]

I not a bully.

[Chaos]

There's all kinds of bullies in the world, some are not so obvious!

That is an interesting point, Chaos.  I wonder if you would like to elaborate.

There are those who talk about fighting bullies and then shout down those who argue against them.  They play the "victim" or better yet, the "martyr".  Emo queens and kings!   Thats about as elaborate as I will get, decide for yourself who fits the "shoes" and who doesn't!