Sex on the Beach.

[Scrapheap]

What are you afraid of?

Bears and owls.

Why does does faith terrify you so much?

To quote Voltaire "Those who believe in absurdities can commit atrocities"

Do I denigrate the fact that you have no faith?

That's not possible. Faith is believing in things that you know damn well aren't true.

Besides you know nothing about me really. You are making the assumption that I am somehow "faithful". I am an observer most of the time, that is all.

Yeah, except your own words in which you say you're fiercely Catholic. Remeber what I said earlier about talking out of both sides of your mouth.

For someone who thinks I am worse than shit on a shoe, you sure do like trying to put me down. Usually, someone who shows so little respect, will avoid the person that they feel no respect for and yet you continue to seek out my posts and make fun of them. Attention seeking, no?

You are claiming to know what I am and what I think. Oh wait, I sense a contradiction comming... 

You have no idea what I am or what I think.

Quit while you are ahead.

Loup

Oooooooh I haven't even begun to fight.

[Callaway]

I think Schleed has a good point.  If believing in God is a question of faith, then people who believe in him need no scientific evidence for his existence.

People who are so staunchly atheist that they pick fights with people for no other reason than that they believe in God are just as bad as the people who believe in God so strongly that they ram their own specific religion down other people's throats.  Both are equally intolerant of the beliefs of others.

[Scrapheap]

I think Schleed has a good point.  If believing in God is a question of faith, then people who believe in him need no scientific evidence for his existence.

While this statement is on its face value true, it reveals the dangerously guilable mindset of the believer. You can believe in absolutely any absurdity based on no evidence. And when you believe in absurdities, you can commint atrocities.

All that you've succeded in proving with this statement, is why there's so many Jim Jones's and David Koreshs' in the world.

People who are so staunchly atheist that they pick fights with people for no other reason than that they believe in God are just as bad as the people who believe in God so strongly that they ram their own specific religion down other people's throats.

Seriously Callaway?? I must've missed the last time Richard Dawkins burned Catholics at the stake.   

Both are equally intolerant of the beliefs of others.

FFS, how many times does this need to be pointed out.   Religious believers have beliefs in spite of no evidence or evidence to the contrary. Atheists beliefs are supported by the evidence. Archaeology has shown ALL religions, including Judeo-Christianity, to be man-made works of fiction.

[Frolic_Fun]

No, found it on ED. Thought it was fitting to this thread.

The next time you have a "thought", just let it go.  

It's a funny cartoon, but it misses the point. The claims of theists and atheists aren't the same.

I don't think it misses the point, more like you're missing the point. I'd only piss about with crazy religious people if they try to dogmatically force their views down my throat, otherwise I will leave them alone despite thinking religion is a pile of bullshit. Sure Loup is a bit of a sensitive bint, but is she forcing her views on others? She always admitted the hypocrisy in it herself.

It does not matter how much evidence there is, you cannot simply self-righteously try to convince others you're right and they're not if they've done nothing wrong to you. Just makes you as bad as any fundie nutjob.

PS. You're doing exactly what the cartoon is doing, only with more assburgers.

[Loupgarou]

What? so atheists do not commit atrocities in the name of belief of some sort?

Loup

[Loupgarou]

Hey Schleed, what is a "bint"? I laughed my arse off. What a fascinating word!!!

"A sensitive bint". I am going to remember that saying for future use

Loup

[Frolic_Fun]

Bint = woman. I've been using that term for years, to the point that binty is called... binty.

[Loupgarou]

Ahah! Now I understand. Do you know Binty, like how did she end up with that username?

Loup

[Frolic_Fun]

We used to be "friends" and met up IRL a few times. Some of my vocabulary rubbed off onto her.

[Loupgarou]

  Well, now it has rubbed off on to me. Bit like the word "eejit". I have an Irish friend who uses it all the time

Doesn't sound as good when I say it.

Loup

[Semicolon]

That's not possible. Faith is believing in things that you know damn well aren't true.

Atheists beliefs are supported by the evidence.

BULLSHIT!: I do not know what the original grievance is between you and Loupgarou, and it doesn't matter for this post. You simply said some things that I disagree with.

When you say "atheist beliefs", I will assume that you are referring to scientific beliefs. (If by "atheism" you mean "positive atheism", you should know that there is an equal amount of rational evidence for and against the existence of God.)

The scientific method does not exist in a vacuum. All scientific principles and experiments are ultimately based on a set of axioms that science basically takes on faith. Without a few basic assumptions, science does not work. For example, it must be assumed that the world is measurable, that the scientist in question is not hallucinating all of existence, that a supernatural entity is not manipulating the results of experiments, etc. You may believe that these are "absurdities", in which case I invite you to prove them false. Your prejudices about what "makes sense" are irrelevant to science. There are many scientific discoveries that do not follow common sense but are nonetheless true. Who is to say that the axioms I mentioned are not also true, even though they defy common sense?

Mathematicians is infamous for engaging in this sort of faith-based behavior. There was a logician named Kurt Gödel who proved that there is the possibility that mathematics is self-contradicting. If an inconsistency like this is ever discovered, the certainty of every mathematical theorem in history would (probably) be torn to shreds. There is no guarantee that it will not happen. In effect, mathematicians everywhere are engaging in a giant act of faith by staking their work on the belief that this will never happen.

We all choose the axioms that we use to make sense of the world. If someone decides to choose as an axiom "God exists", you have no business criticizing this decision unless you can rationally prove that the axiom is incorrect. Your implication that faith is inherently wrong is misguided and does not do justice to a logical philosophy. What a person chooses to accept on the basis of faith alone, in an area where only faith can provide answers, is that person's decision. You should not dismiss faith so lightly.

[Scrapheap]

What? so atheists do not commit atrocities in the name of belief of some sort?

Loup

Yes they do, but to do so, they must invent a quasi-religion. Stalinism, Maoism, Kimism and all the others are all theocratic in nature. Even George Orwell pointed this out.

[Scrapheap]

Semicolon, I'll address your post later, I'm going to get drunk.

[Frolic_Fun]

Both science and religion were attempts to understand the world and the universe, since humans normally didn't know what the fuck was going on. I tend to lean more towards science though, as it does answer a lot of questions to me... *but* it itself will not 100% prove anything. Religion doesn't seem to prove anything at all, but I tolerate someone's beliefs if it brings them happiness and they don't try to force their views on me.

I accept there are things that we can never understand, or even imagine. The very existence of life and the universe is so puzzling that it can make your brain melt if you think about it too long. No matter how much we try to understand, one thing will never be answered - why and how the fuck is any of this possible?

Semicolon, I'll address your post later, I'm going to get drunk.

I call bullshit. You always have a tendency to silently ignore posts or back out of things like this.

[Loupgarou]

That's not possible. Faith is believing in things that you know damn well aren't true.

Atheists beliefs are supported by the evidence.

BULLSHIT!: I do not know what the original grievance is between you and Loupgarou, and it doesn't matter for this post. You simply said some things that I disagree with.

When you say "atheist beliefs", I will assume that you are referring to scientific beliefs. (If by "atheism" you mean "positive atheism", you should know that there is an equal amount of rational evidence for and against the existence of God.)

The scientific method does not exist in a vacuum. All scientific principles and experiments are ultimately based on a set of axioms that science basically takes on faith. Without a few basic assumptions, science does not work. For example, it must be assumed that the world is measurable, that the scientist in question is not hallucinating all of existence, that a supernatural entity is not manipulating the results of experiments, etc. You may believe that these are "absurdities", in which case I invite you to prove them false. Your prejudices about what "makes sense" are irrelevant to science. There are many scientific discoveries that do not follow common sense but are nonetheless true. Who is to say that the axioms I mentioned are not also true, even though they defy common sense?

Mathematicians is infamous for engaging in this sort of faith-based behavior. There was a logician named Kurt Gödel who proved that there is the possibility that mathematics is self-contradicting. If an inconsistency like this is ever discovered, the certainty of every mathematical theorem in history would (probably) be torn to shreds. There is no guarantee that it will not happen. In effect, mathematicians everywhere are engaging in a giant act of faith by staking their work on the belief that this will never happen.

We all choose the axioms that we use to make sense of the world. If someone decides to choose as an axiom "God exists", you have no business criticizing this decision unless you can rationally prove that the axiom is incorrect. Your implication that faith is inherently wrong is misguided and does not do justice to a logical philosophy. What a person chooses to accept on the basis of faith alone, in an area where only faith can provide answers, is that person's decision. You should not dismiss faith so lightly.

 

Loup