Teen killer in 1983....scary laws....

[Adam]

Making your underage daugthter give birth amounts to child abuse

[Icequeen]

I don't know what the cut-off should be, but I don't think justice was served, at 14 I think he was old enough where he knew what he was doing.

He even talked to a friend about it prior to the murders.

He stabbed his 10 yr old adoptive brother more than 20 times, the mother 15, and shot the father 5 times.  

[Scrapheap]

I don't know what the cut-off should be, but I don't think justice was served, at 14 I think he was old enough where he knew what he was doing.

He even talked to a friend about it prior to the murders.

He stabbed his 10 yr old adoptive brother more than 20 times, the mother 15, and shot the father 5 times.  

Yeah, that's pretty cold-blooded. The guy should've been locked away for good.

[Callaway]

No, some people argue that underage persons are capable of making an informed decision about abortion, but then say that underage persons aren't capable of deciding not to commit a crime and shouldn't be treated as adults.  Maybe not people on Intensity, but some people I've read.

You know, that's a really good point.

[Eclair]

No, some people argue that underage persons are capable of making an informed decision about abortion, but then say that underage persons aren't capable of deciding not to commit a crime and shouldn't be treated as adults.  Maybe not people on Intensity, but some people I've read.

You know, that's a really good point.

I think the crime we are talking about was particularly vicious, and the fact his own brother was adopted also...even though he says he was jealous because his brother Perry was the perfect son....

Well Perry probably wasn't perfect, he was most likely normal. Some people are just born evil, and / or this kid had a bad reaction to finding out he was adopted.

What scared me the most was the laws back then enabled him to enter back into society with no monitoring, claim his adoptive parents estate, contact his birth mother, without any implications from what he'd done.

This wasn't even a spur of the moment crime, he'd already conveyed that he wanted to kill his family.

As the article says, laws changed after this case, however, it makes you wonder just how many similar juvenile offenders are still out there like time bombs, with their current loved ones or family not knowing their past?  That's the part that scared me.

[Natalia Evans]

OMG Hans Zimmer, that is the person who composed music for A League of Their Own and Rain Man but I doubt it's the same guy. 

I didn't really follow, how did Peter Zimmer get busted in his adulthood?

[Callaway]

There'a a juvenile in Colorado who murdered his adoptive mother and grandmother with a knife and a claw hammer five days after he turned 14.  He tried to kill his adoptive father after he came home too, but he overpowered him and called the police, who arrested him.  He made a plea agreement to serve until he was 21 in a juvenle faclilty for killing his mother, then 32 years in an adult facility for killing his grandmother, but he could ask a judge to review his sentence when he turned 21.  The judge released him to a halfway house for intensively supervised probation to serve his 32 year sentence.

I hope it winds up turning out well.  The boy had undiagnosed mental health issues, which led to a psychotic break.  I think he's taking medication for bipolar disorder now.

I found this, which talks about the reasons children kill their parents:

http://extras.denverpost.com/news/violence/viol0213b.htm

[Natalia Evans]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/92026444.html

Wow, that is scary.  It's a lot easier to try even younger children as adults in court now, but I'm not so sure that's a good thing.

Of course it's a good thing. Especially if the child took someone's life.

OK, then where do you draw the line?

Suppose someone gave a twelve year old a gun and told them to shoot some person the adult had a grudge against?

Should the child be tried as an adult?

Sometimes I think teens should be given a break because they are still children so they tend to listen to adults and can still get pressured to do things they don't want to do and they trust the adult. I remember watching a life time movie about a real life case. This 14 year old girl gets manipulated to shoot her stepmother and her dad kept telling her if she loves him, she will do it for him. He also told her a lie about her so get her to follow through. I don't remember what his lies were but he wanted to get rid of his wife and used his daughter to do it. She got charged and went to Juvi hall.

Okay her dad manipulated her and telling her it's okay to do it and if she loves him and cares she will do it. Three years later he finally gets charged for his wife's murder and his second wife also gets charged because she was part of her sister's murder.

There was another case in the 2000's about these two boys who killed their mother, the 15 year old and the 20 year old and it happened in January 2003. The brother talks his younger brother into it and he stays in his room and watches TV while his older brother provokes their schizophrenic mother so she attack him so he can kill her to make it look like self defense. They both get charged but the 15 year old's lawyer talked him into testifying against his brother and because his brother was an adult and he was the child, his lawyer was able to convince the jury and the judge to give him a break due to his age. He is only sentenced to juvi hall for maybe a year or two and then he gets out and his real dad gets custody over him but he got disowned by his mother's side of the family for turning against his brother. The book is called "Such Good Boys" and it's about this murder case that really happened.


I don't think teens have that good of judgment yet because they still listen to adults and can be easily manipulated because they are still children. But yet when you turn 18, you are all of a sudden expected to know right from wrong and have an adult mind so what happens to adults with disabilities who can easily be tricked and manipulated to do crimes? Unfortunately they get charged and get locked away, even face the death penalty. Of course if you have MR, you just get a life sentence because our country doesn't execute them anymore.

[Natalia Evans]

In 1998, a 15 year old boy in Springfield, OR killed his parents and got a life sentence. I remember seeing it on the news and his name was Kip.

Then I remember these two school shooters in Jonsboro, AK that happened in March 1998. they were 11 and 13 and cousins and they took guns to school and started shooting and they killed a teacher and four students. They both got charged as juveniles because they were both under the age to be tried as an adult. I think the age there is 14.

I also remember hearing on the news in 1995 about a ten year old boy shooting his five year old sister because he was jealous. I believe he got taken away. I can never find the story online because I don't know the boy's name. Maybe someone can help if they remember this story.

Then when I was 15, I remember reading online about an aspie teen boy killing an infant with a knife, I think it was his sibling, and he got locked away. I don't remember his name. And if I remember correctly, didn't he get out in his 20's and then get busted again for child porn or rape? I recall that story being posted here.

And I remember reading online about people being against the juvenile death penalty and people who support capital punishment don't supposed under age teens being sentenced to death. In 1985, this 14 year old girl who stabbed her 75 year old bible teacher to death got sentenced to death in 1986 at age 15 and the grandson of the bible teacher wanted the murderer to be put to death but when he found out it was done by a under age teen, he didn't want her to die. In 1988 when our country raised the age to 16 to get the death sentence, she got off death row because she was under that age at the time of the crime.  She got her GED and does other stuff while she is serving her time and won't get out until she is in her 60's. Her name was Paula. She isn't the same person she was when she was in her teens but shame she had to throw her life away for something stupid she did in her teens. Now she has to suffer the consequence as an adult.
The reason why people don't believe in the juvenile death penalty is because teens may not understand their actions and the consequences of them they say but what I find hypocritical is if that is the case, then why the hell do we try them as adults? Why the hell do we even punish them for their actions? Yeah I know about if you do a adult crime, you should face the adult consequence but what about six year olds who do adult crimes or four year olds, shall we try them as adults since they did an adult crime? This is a double standard here. I know society thinks teens should know right from wrong so if they do an adult crime, they should be tried as adults but yet it's a double standard to say they may not understand their actions and consequences. This doesn't make any sense. That's why some people say Americans love double standards. To me it's contradicting and a double standard.