Should sex changes be funded by the state?

[Adam]

Just saw somtrhing someone said on WP...

should sex changes be funded by the state at all?

That's a whole other thread!   

So what does everybody think?

[Callaway]

I think that unless there was some sort of birth defect, surgery for an adult who wanted to change genders would be considered elective surgery.

I think sometimes a sympathetic doctor can get the medications covered, though.

[Adam]

but you think IVF should be covered?

As long as someone is diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder, they should be able to get the treatment they require.

Someone shouldn't be forced to live their life the wrong sex just because they are poor

[Callaway]

but you think IVF should be covered?

As long as someone is diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder, they should be able to get the treatment they require.

Someone shouldn't be forced to live their life the wrong sex just because they are poor

If you think that people who can't afford to pay for infertility treatments themselves should be unable to make use of medical treatment to have children, then how can you possibly justify the expense of having the taxpayers pay for elective surgery for someone who feels they were born into the wrong gender body?

[Adam]

Because gender identity Disoder is called as a mental illness. Forcing someone to live their life in the wrong body is worse than not paying for someone;s IVF. We should be encouraging adoption.

[Scrapheap]

NO!

This is fucking retarded! Sex change operations are expensive and it is beyond fucktarded to expect strangers to foot the bill for this bullshit!!

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Wouldn't a sex change fall under the category of cosmetic surgery though? If so, it wouldn't be eligible for state funding to begin with I don't think; otherwise it would open the flood gates for loophole claims. I suppose that could be solved by rigorous and gruelling safeguards being instated to filter out fraudulent claims (such disguised as "partial sex changes" or "sex enhancement" because they feel not like their sex enough). But you can see the complications of allowing such a thing. If there's assurance that loopholes can be closed and mitigate wasted expenditure, then it could be plausible to allow state funding, or at least subsidies.

[Adam]

I don't think it is cosmetic surgery. I don't just mean the surgery though, I mean hormone therapy etc

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

I don't think it is cosmetic surgery. I don't just mean the surgery though, I mean hormone therapy etc

In that case, I don't see why not. But the state might be more incline to say, "We'll pay for some of it providing you can prove 100% that this claim is genuine, and you'll have to chip in too."

But that still leaves the loopholes that need closing, to ensure the right people are granted treatment and are not exploiting the system.

[GalileoAce]

surgery for an adult who wanted to change genders would be considered elective surgery.

I didn't elect to be trans...

Consider this:

I was born mentally female, physically male. I've been diagnosed as such, so I'm medically recognised as transsexual. But to be legally recognised as my mental or chosen gender I have to have the Sexual Reassignment Surgery. There's no ifs buts or maybes. Without that surgery I won't be legally recognised as female. So I have to fork out several thousand dollars to be afforded the same legal recognitions and rights as any other female. Without that legal recognition I could legally be discriminated on the grounds of gender and gender history.

I think that unless there was some sort of birth defect,

As above, there is much evidence to suggest to transgendered conditions are innate. That is, I was born with a female mind, psyche, what have you. From this perspective it IS a birth defect. My physical sex is incogruent with my mental gender.

I think sometimes a sympathetic doctor can get the medications covered, though.

In most places, especially UK and Australia HRT is covered or partially covered for trans people.

how can you possibly justify the expense of having the taxpayers pay for elective surgery for someone who feels they were born into the wrong gender body?

The same way you can justify the many treatments for born conditions that are covered through government subsidies. I don't know how it works in the US, but Australian government subdidises or completely covers many conditions, including Autism, ADHD, Downs, Intersex, almost all congenital conditions. They're all justifiable, but trans is not?

Because gender identity Disoder is called as a mental illness. Forcing someone to live their life in the wrong body is worse than not paying for someone;s IVF. We should be encouraging adoption.

GID is not a mental illness. A mental condition perhaps. Most trans people do not see at all mental, but rather biological. It's the body that is wrong not the mind.

[Adam]

Mental disorder then. I didn't say I saw it as a mental disorder, I don't - my point was that as long as it's considered by healkth authorities to be a disorder, it should be treated in the same way any other condition is (ie it should be funded)

And I agree with all your other points

[GalileoAce]

For FtM people there are three surgeries, double mastectomy, hysterectomy and phalloplasty. The first two are required by most jurisdictions to grant legal recognition of male sex, the last is also often required, but not always. Only the double mastectomy is needed to assist in the presentation of being male. The hormone therapy pretty does the rest, facial hair, voice, muscle development changes, facial fat deposit changes etc.

For MtF people there are also three surgeries, Sexual Reassignment Surgery, Breast Enlargement, and Facial Feminising Surgery. Only the first one is required for legal recognition of female sex. But the latter two are sometimes needed to assist in the presentation of being female. Not all MtF trans people can grow adequate sized breast (by adequate I mean socially obvious), and so enhancement is often required. Facial Feminising Surgery is a form of cosmetic surgery where they make subtle changes to the bone, cartilage and muscles of the face to make it appear more feminine. This is not always needed, but it can make a HUGE different in appearance.

Also of those surgeries are risky, and as with all surgeries potentially life threatening. They also cost several thousand dollars each, and in some cases to get the best possible surgery, and thus the best possible outcome, people have to travel overseas to get better trained doctors, further adding to the cost.

All in all, being trans is incredibly expensive, even in Australia where alot of my treatment is covered. I see a psychologist, psychiatrist, speech therapist, endocrinologist, all of which are partially covered or not covered at all. On average I'm out of pocket $70 each time I see any of them. This is on top of the cost of hormones which is about $10 a month, roughly, and it's that cheap only because I'm both on a pension and a low income earner.


On the flipside, if a trans person didn't pursue transition they could end up suffering from depression and anxiety and may end up in the mental health system, which is covered by the government anyway...

[Adam]

Only the double mastectomy is needed to assist in the presentation of being male.

Not necessarily even that.

[GalileoAce]

Only the double mastectomy is needed to assist in the presentation of being male.

Not necessarily even that.

True, some FtMs are naturally less endowed, and/or can use binders, but that's not a permanent solution, and once their undress...

[Adam]

Yeah I was thinking you just meant on the street etc, so with clothes on