Should universities use positive discrimination to increase diversity?

[Adam]

Would you even want to get a job or place on a course based on what you are, rather than your abilities? I don't think i would

[Scrapheap]

NO!

[Parts]

Depends on how much it pays

It's all screwed up when they start playing one race against another which this essentially does

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Would you even want to get a job or place on a course based on what you are, rather than your abilities? I don't think i would

The irony though is the fact they're still discriminating. If one wants to be technical, discrimination starts the moment one discerns racial/sexual/political/religious/etc difference and commits to preferential treatment (positive or negative), and is not based on required criteria that's relevant for the work. This is because if you commit positive enforcements for a certain group, just because they are themselves, guess what? You're still denying another group equal treatment as they're not eligible for it. In a way that's why I also consider political correctness as the ultimate hypocrisy, as it still entails the same discriminative thinking patterns as their bigoted counterparts.

tl;dr: No, I don't think it's right, and I find the notion hypocritical.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

They actually did this at Evergreen State College. Look at the results.

[Pyraxis]

They do it at a lot of colleges.

I can see the positives - if you have someone who's brilliant but needs a few remedial courses to catch up, it makes sense to pick them over the uninspired rich kid who's had everything handed to them and will probably piss away their scholarship and drop out from drinking. It's a fact that good high schools in good areas have better college prep classes. You can knock out a whole host of freshman credits with AP classes (in the USA) if you do it right. Personal SAT and ACT prep tutors, all that bullshit. You can't get that in ghetto schools.

But simplifying it to race ignores true income disparity. Sure, statistically there might be a higher proportion of ethnic people in poor areas, but it totally screws over the poor white kid and gives an unfair advantage to the ethnic child of two doctors in an upper middle class neighbourhood.

[Yuri Bezmenov]

^ I was about to correct you after reading the first paragraph.

Then I read the second paragraph where you hit the nail on the head.   

[Trigger 11]

The title of this thread is sooooo right wing...whether intentional or not.

[Jack]

The title of this thread is sooooo right wing...whether intentional or not.

The title wasn't written by someone in the US. That might be what they call affirmative action there. It does have a more honest ring to it.

[Grey Area]

That might be what they call affirmative action there.

It is.

[Al Swearegen]

Fair does not necessarily mean equal outcomes. meritocracy makes sense

[Lestat]

Precisely. What is the difference between these two statements:

No, you can't have a job, whitey, because you are not black, chinese, arab, eastern european vs western european

and 'no, sorry we want you because you are black, chinese, arab, polish..'

The only difference is in the one being refused the job, the education, its doing the exact same thing they claim to be fighting, in the name of fighting it.

'fuck off nigger, we want a white man'
vs
'fuck off white boy, we haven't got enough blacks to fill our quota'

About the only difference is they would get in the shif if they actually used words like 'honkey' or 'cracka' in the job interview/school entrance exam. But the end effect is identical. The population differs, but what is done to the population is exactly the same thing these cocksuckers claim to be fighting. Bunch of fucking hypocrites, and if they engage in it, and are not themselves of the same ethnicity they claim to be 'positively' discriminating for, they  should lose their job and have it handed on a plate to the whitey etc. that they just screwed. Just to say 'fuck you, you hypocritical son of a whore'

I am all for assistance for special ed students who otherwise get screwed, like I did, in getting work opportunity support after. At my second autism school (the LFA one didn't even DO exams, at all, had I stayed there I'd have no qualifications whatsoever) I got shafted on my science qualifications. They forced me to take the lower-tier paper, the maximum grade scorable with them was a C grade, with no chance, no matter how well you do, I didn't just do well. I aced the papers. Out of the physics, the biology and the chemistry, I got ONE question wrong, and that by accidentally juxtaposing the formulae for carbonate and hydrogencarbonate (bicarbonate) ions. I KNEW that answer too, I just miswrote because the exams were a stressful time. Hell I use both bicarbonates and carbonates often enough in the lab, to already know the damn difference. And despite a 100% pass rate in two papers and 99% in the chem, due to that one stupid error, I got a C grade. And thats probably denied me jobs, and doubtless means that I'd not get accepted in uni. Had I been ALLOWED to take the higher tier exams, I'd have got 3 A*s. But no. They were a special school and 'sorry we don't do higher tier papers'. I feel cheated big time about that. And I think rightly so. Because had I taken the higher tier paper, and scored like that, I'd have got those A*s, instead of a near worthless mark that means no uni would ever think about taking me.

And you know what? not only did I score that well on the sciences papers. I got the highest scores in science the school had ever HAD. By any student, ever. So basically I was denied my chance at a uni place on the basis of those results. Nobody would take a C-grade student. afaik. WHY? because I'm autistic. Pretty sure, somehow, that for some reason, people here might just be inclined to agree that is a completely and utterly illegitimate way to cheat somebody of job prospects. Do I not deserve the same full degree of credit for the same performance as as an NT?

[renaeden]

^Do you want to go to uni?

These days (in Australia anyway) a number of unis have enabling courses for anyone who missed out on uni when they were younger. There's just a minor written test to pass to get in.

I did OnTrack - a six month course about all kinds of uni stuff like how to write essays, reports, understand uni etiquette, etc. I did the "arts" variant, there was a science-based one as well.

There may be something like this where you are Lestat, can't hurt to find out.

[Lestat]

Thanks, Ren. Yeah I'd love to, say, major in organic chemistry and minor in genetics. Sharpen my skills up and broaden my knowledge and abilities. And you never know...unis often end up chucking all kinds of stock out and buying new stuff at the least excuse. I'd be sure to have a quiet word with the tutors to let them know there is a very good home such things as old glassware and electronics could go to rather than in the bin, and that any old reagents could find someone that would clean them up and make sure they got recycled to good use (obviously, excluding stuff like crusty, years-old cans of ether, THF (these  you wouldn't even want to be in the same room with, as they can peroxidize, and the peroxidized ether deposite crystals of REALLY unstable, powerfully explosive alkylidene peroxides in the screw threads of the cap, the moment some poor shitbag tries to unscrew the container, its likely to go off like a hand grenade and tear them to pieces) etc., picric acid stored in metal containers (heavy metal and transition metal picrates form, and these are shock-sensitive primary explosives), iffy-looking containers of unlabelled god-only-knows what, old, not-too-healthy looking containers of hydrofluoric acid and the likes) but anything that could viably be cleaned up and looking for somebody to 'adopt' such things, willing to put in a bit of effort to purify chemicals and rehabilitate old equipment, I'd definitely have to do my best to blag such things:D

[renaeden]

^You definitely have the background knowledge to be able to go. I say go for it and find out if you can.