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Author Topic: Police  (Read 892 times)

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Offline Parts

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Police
« on: October 06, 2010, 05:40:33 PM »
I am so sick of police and there "we are the law we can do as we choose " attitude with out any repercussions.  Were I am it is beginning to catch up with them thankfully it will even more soon.  Last year an officer killed two teens while racing his fellow officer bac from a call. No emergency nothing the one that killed the two was going close to 100 mph on a local road.  He is getting charged with manslaughter his buddy was doing over 70 but got a slap on the wrist.  The families of the teens had filed a Freedom of Information act request for about 1000 hours of dash cam vidio to show this was something they did all the time.  Then OPPS a lieutenant erased the tapes they wanted and got a one day vacation.  But now more have surfaced one showing an officer who is near and dear to my heart going 113 on his way to a call not once but multiple times he has been suspended for a week without pay and prohibited from driving a police car for nine months.  The reason I love him so much is he roughed up my foster son and twice threatened to arrest me when I questioned his authority and said to me that my sons AS was just an excuse for bad behavior.  We filed a compliant but it did little he is not allowed at the high school  Here is the vid from the accident that started it all
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw

Offline Loupgarou

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Re: Police
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2010, 05:50:16 PM »
I don't know about the US, Parts, but here in Oz, New South Wales in particular as a special police task force that has powers to assert order (bit like riot squad) in times of violence in the street. They are a task force that patrols the streest of nightclubs and pubs in metro areas as it can get a bit violent (lots of stabbings, glassings and so on). They are able to match violence with violence with no repercussions unless they use "unreasonable force" ??? I mean, I can understand them acting in self-defence, but I have seen them take out a guy because he pushed a female copper. He was much larger than her, he came across as a threat, so he got taken down.

Yep, start of a police state.

Loup

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Re: Police
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2010, 05:54:11 PM »
And they wonder why people don't like them :duh:
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw

The_Chosen_One

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Re: Police
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2010, 06:29:48 PM »
Stupidest thing I saw was sometime roughly 20 years ago. We were travelling back from my brother's place in Mulgrave (eastern Melb suburb) and when we got to Doncaster, we were behind a cop car who only had its lights on when it went through traffic lights. We followed it all the way to Albert St Preston, where it turned off into a side street and stopped. Reason being? The cop inside was getting a pizza.

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Re: Police
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2010, 07:09:41 PM »
that is fucked up. but so are the cops, the ones in my towns are complete assholes! as soon as you give a guy a bage and a gun they start acting like john fucking wayne and a god like complex of complete SHIT takes control

P7PSP

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Re: Police
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2010, 07:18:14 PM »
I hope the murderer of those teens has shit go of it in prison.

Offline Callaway

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Re: Police
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2010, 07:51:12 PM »
The bad ones scare me. 

My daughter's school is planning a field trip to a police station to show the kids what they might expect if a policeman responds to an accident scene or if the policeman does a routine traffic stop, but the waiver of liability the police department wants us to sign for her to go on this trip releases them from all liability and indemnifies them if your child is hurt or dies due to their negligence.

I wonder what the policemen at this station would do if an autistic child grabbed them and hugged them or even pulled their hair that they feel they need this waiver?  Shoot them dead?  Before anyone says I'm just being paranoid, remember this is where a few years ago, a policeman shot four times and killed a mentally disabled 15 year old boy because he didn't follow the policeman's order to put down a kitchen knife he was holding.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2558560/detail.html

P7PSP

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Re: Police
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2010, 07:57:02 PM »
The bad ones scare me. 

My daughter's school is planning a field trip to a police station to show the kids what they might expect if a policeman responds to an accident scene or if the policeman does a routine traffic stop, but the waiver of liability the police department wants us to sign for her to go on this trip releases them from all liability and indemnifies them if your child is hurt or dies due to their negligence.

I wonder what the policemen at this station would do if an autistic child grabbed them and hugged them or even pulled their hair that they feel they need this waiver?  Shoot them dead?  Before anyone says I'm just being paranoid, remember this is where a few years ago, a policeman shot four times and killed a mentally disabled 15 year old boy because he didn't follow the policeman's order to put down a kitchen knife he was holding.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2558560/detail.html
Shooting someone who is behaving in a threatening manner with a knife is justified Callaway. I was stabbed in my right front thigh and it wasn't fun.

Offline Callaway

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Re: Police
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2010, 08:13:18 PM »
The bad ones scare me. 

My daughter's school is planning a field trip to a police station to show the kids what they might expect if a policeman responds to an accident scene or if the policeman does a routine traffic stop, but the waiver of liability the police department wants us to sign for her to go on this trip releases them from all liability and indemnifies them if your child is hurt or dies due to their negligence.

I wonder what the policemen at this station would do if an autistic child grabbed them and hugged them or even pulled their hair that they feel they need this waiver?  Shoot them dead?  Before anyone says I'm just being paranoid, remember this is where a few years ago, a policeman shot four times and killed a mentally disabled 15 year old boy because he didn't follow the policeman's order to put down a kitchen knife he was holding.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2558560/detail.html
Shooting someone who is behaving in a threatening manner with a knife is justified Callaway. I was stabbed in my right front thigh and it wasn't fun.

Paul Childs was standing in his own doorway inside the house behind a screen door or a storm door and the policeman was standing outside on the porch steps, if I remember correctly.  There were other policemen at the scene with tasers, who could have at least tazed him rather than murder him if they felt he posed a threat.  This policeman claimed later that he didn't know that Paul Childs was mentally disabled, but he had been to the house and dealt with Paul Childs personally in the past when he had wandered away from home.

Also, this was the second disabled teenager in 18 months this particular policeman had shot and killed because he didn't put down a knife.  The other dead teenager was deaf and standing still at the bottom of his own basement stairs holding a small pocket knife while the policeman was standing at the top of the stairs. Obviously, he couldn't hear the policeman's commands.

P7PSP

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Re: Police
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2010, 08:23:17 PM »
According to the story you linked to his family called the police saying that he was threatening his mother with a knife. There is a specific training drill called the Tueller drill designed to demonstrate how close is too close when dealing with a knife wielding attacker. 21 feet = less than 1.5 seconds response time. http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm It is a well established principle, I believe it.

Offline Callaway

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Re: Police
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2010, 08:41:00 PM »
According to the story you linked to his family called the police saying that he was threatening his mother with a knife. There is a specific training drill called the Tueller drill designed to demonstrate how close is too close when dealing with a knife wielding attacker. 21 feet = less than 1.5 seconds response time. http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm It is a well established principle, I believe it.

You make a good point about the danger zone and I didn't realize that it was that large.  That is probably why no criminal charges were ever filed against the policeman, although he was suspended without pay for ten months.  You're also right about Paul Child's sister's 911 call.  The dispatcher cut her off before she was able to fully explain about her brother's disability, however.  In your link, it said that it would be wise for a policeman to retreat and find cover rather than rush toward a person holding a knife, which is what that policeman did.  Everyone else except for Paul Childs was already out of the house when this was all happening, so why didn't the policeman take a few steps back so he would be out of the danger zone instead of rushing forward which placed him in the danger zone in the first place?

Quote
Having analyzed the problem, the following suggestions come to mind: First, develop and maintain a healthy level of tactical alertness. If you spot the danger signs early enough, you can probably avoid the confrontation altogether. A tactical withdrawal (I hesitate to use the word "retreat") may be your best bet, unless you're anxious to get involved in a shooting and the consequent legal hassles which are sure to follow.

Next, if your "Early Warning System" tells you that a possible lethal confrontation is imminent, you want to place yourself in the best tactical position available. You should move to cover (if there is any close at hand), draw your weapon, and start to plan your next move.

Why use cover, you may wonder, if your attacker is using only a knife? Because you want to make it hard for him to get to you. Anything between you and your attacker (trash cans, vehicles, furniture, etc.) that slows him down buys you more time to make the appropriate decisions, and, if it becomes necessary, more time to place your shots.

I suggest you draw your weapon as soon as the danger clearly exists. There is no point in waiting until the last possible second to play "Quick-Draw McGraw" if you recognize the threat early on. Also, the sight of your "Equalizer" may be sufficient to terminate the action then and there.

The_Chosen_One

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Re: Police
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2010, 08:55:06 PM »
Screen door between the cop and the person with the knife = no threat. that's how I see it. Once the door was open OR the door taken out of the equation, then the threat becomes visible. Same as with the staircase. You may say that it's better to be safe than sorry, but I would say it's better to exercise complete caution in defusing the 'perceived' threat in the first place.

With autistic kids and mentally ill/unbalanced people, the position is made even harder, and the training given to most police probably isn't up to scratch.

P7PSP

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Re: Police
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2010, 09:01:41 PM »

You make a good point about the danger zone and I didn't realize that it was that large.  That is probably why no criminal charges were ever filed against the policeman, although he was suspended without pay for ten months.  You're also right about Paul Child's sister's 911 call.  The dispatcher cut her off before she was able to fully explain about her brother's disability, however.  In your link, it said that it would be wise for a policeman to retreat and find cover rather than rush toward a person holding a knife, which is what that policeman did.  Everyone else except for Paul Childs was already out of the house when this was all happening, so why didn't the policeman take a few steps back so he would be out of the danger zone instead of rushing forward which placed him in the danger zone in the first place?
In the article DA Ritter said that Childs was 4 to 6 feet away from the Officers and continuing to advance forward contrary to their commands. I don't know anything not in the story about the case but there are plenty of teenagers without prior criminal histories that have committed murder so, whether I was a cop or not, I would tend to believe that someone is dangerous if there own family members called up stating that said teenager had threatened his mother with a knife and he still had the knife when I arrived. I have no trouble believing the kid was a danger to others. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were certainly a danger to others.

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Re: Police
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2010, 09:59:18 PM »

You make a good point about the danger zone and I didn't realize that it was that large.  That is probably why no criminal charges were ever filed against the policeman, although he was suspended without pay for ten months.  You're also right about Paul Child's sister's 911 call.  The dispatcher cut her off before she was able to fully explain about her brother's disability, however.  In your link, it said that it would be wise for a policeman to retreat and find cover rather than rush toward a person holding a knife, which is what that policeman did.  Everyone else except for Paul Childs was already out of the house when this was all happening, so why didn't the policeman take a few steps back so he would be out of the danger zone instead of rushing forward which placed him in the danger zone in the first place?
In the article DA Ritter said that Childs was 4 to 6 feet away from the Officers and continuing to advance forward contrary to their commands. I don't know anything not in the story about the case but there are plenty of teenagers without prior criminal histories that have committed murder so, whether I was a cop or not, I would tend to believe that someone is dangerous if there own family members called up stating that said teenager had threatened his mother with a knife and he still had the knife when I arrived. I have no trouble believing the kid was a danger to others. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were certainly a danger to others.

I think from reading other things about the case at the time that Ritter must have said what the policeman James Turney told him, but other people at the scene said that Paul Childs was standing still in his own doorway and was not advancing when he was shot, that Turney was the one who advanced toward the door.

OK, I found another link that's still good.  Several other policemen, some of whom were armed with Tasers, came on the scene first and ordered the other people out of the home.  Paul Child's mother met them at the security door and explained to them about her son Paul, "I told them, 'He's a special-needs child. Just talk to him and get the knife away."

Paul Childs was standing in his own doorway behind the closed security door and as soon as Turney arrived on the scene, he drew his weapon and advanced to the door and held it open with his foot.  He ordered Paul Childs to drop the weapon he was clutching to his own chest and when Paul Childs did not, he shot him four times in the chest.  Exactly 32 seconds elapsed between Turney's arrival on the scene and Turney calling for an ambulance after he shot Paul Childs four times in the chest.  Turney was suspended for ten months for violating the department's policy by public safety manager Al LaCabe, a former police officer and former deputy district attorney, who wrote in his report: "By immediately forcing a confrontation with Mr. Childs, Officer Turney exposed himself and others to an immediate risk of harm, placing Mr. Childs only six to seven feet away from Officer Turney, and creating a likely deadly force situation."

Turney's suspension was later overturned on appeal, but he was given a desk job when he returned to work.


The_Chosen_One

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Re: Police
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2010, 10:04:40 PM »
Personally, Turney should have faced manslaughter charges.