OK Kit come on down and be prepared to back your words and every insinuation

[Frolic_Fun]

So if a pregnant woman killed half the city, it would be okay because she's pregnant? An extreme example, but only done to exaggerate the fault of your logic.

[RageBeoulve]

^This.

[Natalia Evans]

Granatelli left because sir les brought the issue back and then others stepped in saying how they were bothered by his comments, I stepped in too and then he decided to leave. I felt sorry for him and didn't know what to say when he said nobody likes him and he is unwanted there. All I could say is sorry he feels that way.

Sure Kit we see the level of "how sorry you are already".
Let's drop the righteous pretense.

The comments that were made about this guys behaviour from me AND OTHERS was more than fair and needed addressing

If anyone wants to see the links, I'll be glad to post them here where the drama occurred. Then others can judge for themselves.

We WILL get to that Kit don't worry. I have done my research too. People need the background to your attempt at smear first though..don't you think?

Yeah I felt sorry for him on the other board because he felt everyone didn't like him and he was unwanted. Is that a bad thing? I can still feel sorry for people you know. I think you are taking this whole thing too personally. I meant nothing bad by it when you said you scared off another NT. Then you asked which NT and if it was a good thing or a bad thing so I thought you were confused about what I said so I asked if you remembered him so you know what I was talking about. TBH I wasn't sure if you were joking with your question or serious. It can be hard to tell on I2 because of the way it was worded.

What Hykes said I told her I be glad to post the links to the drama if anyone is curious and wants to know the whole story. Then they can decide if you scared him off or if he simply decided to leave and you didn't cause it. Get it? Don't you like people knowing all the facts too before making any assumptions or judgments? Why are you upset by it?


Heck I scared maggiedoll off of WP. Know how I did it? It had to do with what happened between sinsboldly and I and she took her side and didn't like me spreading the word about her being banned and being happy I caused her banning. She stayed for a little longer and then left the forum. Now she just lurks every now and then but she doesn't post. Yes it was her decision to leave and not post there anymore but I was the cause of her to make that choice.

People here scared off sinsboldly when she joined because she didn't like being questioned about something. I don't remember what, callaway remembers though since she does research for the answer and I can't be arsed to do it. Sure it was her choice to leave here and ask her account to be deleted but people here were the cause of her making that choice right?

So I always say someone scared another person off.

[Natalia Evans]

I think I may have started something. Oh shit. Why must I be good at these things when it's not my intention?

But thank goodness this is I2.

You aren't good at these things Kit. You will find this out in this thread.

Yes thank goodness this is I2.

I2 where:
We won't cater for your shitstirring without calling you on it
Where you need to make account of yourself
Where no-one will call me out for being unduly mean to you
Where you will been exposed to the full for your every word.
Where Admin don't stop and intercede.
Where even the spectators that don't approved will respect the place enough not to intervene.

You are on your own here. Back yourself Kit.

That was the response to Sopho's drama llama picture and I wasn't expecting any drama, I didn't even know you were going to get bent so out of shape. If I knew would I still have mentioned you scared off another NT? I dunno.

So I made that post and because this is I2, I don't even bother going back to delete my previous posts that would start something. This seems to be the second time here I have done it. First I say who bearheart is after I find out and boom, a drama breaks out. Okay that became enjoyable even though it was not my intention. Then now this.

[Phlexor]

So if a pregnant woman killed half the city, it would be okay because she's pregnant? An extreme example, but only done to exaggerate the fault of your logic.

If shleed was a twat, could anyone tell the difference?

Did Kit kill half the city? Not that I'm aware of. Extreme examples don't prove anything.

[Natalia Evans]

But hey rather than go the route of talking in abstract terms let's get to the crux of why I AND OTHERS had issue with Granatelli. It was for bullshit ableist shit he continually spouted in a ASD relationship support forum.

Have a look at this to get up to speed people.

....Aspies on the board ought not see it as Ableism.

Stereotypes and generalizations exist because there is always some truth in them.

No this is not right and you are smart enough to know this is not right.

Stereotypes such as The stupidity of Irish (probably from illiterate Irish immigrants and xenophobic bigots) , The degeneracy of black people (Racists throughout history fearing the other because their skin is different), the gullibility and naivety of blondes  (Sexist probably knew three or our blondes that he thought was stupid and away he went) and so on. I am sure in all of these instances of stereotypes and generalisations you may find people who fit one of these stereotypes in some great or small way. The above as broad statements are NOT TRUE and rather insulting to be honest.

Don't try to fool us that stereotypes are OK if you can find instances to back them. They are not and furthermore taken to believing the stereotypes is actually something a little worse. There s a couple of terms reserved for people who are happy looking at the classification of person before the person themselves and to used a broad concept of a classification to associate with all people of the classification.

Don't be that guy Grantanelli.

AS is a disability. An official dx exists.

No one is doubting that. The reason for us being here (I bloody hope) is that why recognise and respect what it isn't and are trying to learn from each other, given understanding for the different neurologies, how to understand appreciate the differences between each other and understand each other from a different perspective.

Lack of empathy is right at the top of the list. Being unable to see another persons point of view or perespective. I didn't make it up, it's in the official dx. So is rigidity.

Nice Grantanelli.

So that is what Empathy is? Sort of close (and it is the small things that make a difference when you have some concepts as abstract and broad as this). Empathy is the sharing of emotion and feelings. It IN NO WAY has to do with being able to see a person's point of view or perspective.

Yes the mention of lack pf empathy is in the official dx and your definition and understanding of what that actually means is not.

I have seen this more than a couple of times though. You making a point about something calling it irrefutable fact and beyond debate. "Argue all you want you can't change the facts"?

What is your understanding of what any one person with Asperger's can with rigidity? How pervasive is it? How disabling/interfering in the functioning of their lives? To what areas of their live and thinking?

Now I want you to tell us in which way rigidity affects each of the Aspies on the forum. Stuck? Bit unfair to ask? Bit unfair to throw this into the debate without term of any reference to try to make a point? I think we can live without having to address rigidity for whatever it may mean to you.

That's why I walked away from this disagreement. Because no matter what anyone says about being open minded or being willing to change their mind if sufficient proof is provided I've got more important things to worry about right now than to have a 20 page argument w/someone who probably won't ever be able to see my point of view anyway & is very rigid or set in what they believe to be true. Again, that's not me, that's in the official dx.

OK Grantanelli knowing my mind like you do and knowing me as a person tell me again how you know what I may or may not believe and why.

I "probably won't ever be able to see my point of view anyway & is very rigid or set in what they believe to be true"? OK explain this because at least two other members on this forum have seen that I am exceptional good at apologising and seeking to right wrongs IF I believe I am wrong and further step away from a strongly contested position, and I believe some may have seen this here.

So how does this reality fit with that which you have composed with me and your presupposition about what aspects of Asperger's Syndrome affect me and to what extent? Tell me again your understanding and where you got it about my views and my ability to appreciate rationality, fairness and reason. Feelings? No contest I battle with this. An emotional argument doesn't make sense and needs explaining to see it or its worth. But that is not what you said you said "I've got more important things to worry about right now than to have a 20 page argument w/someone who probably won't ever be able to see my point of view anyway & is very rigid or set in what they believe to be true" That is quite an assumption and again based on a stereotype or generalisation and broadly smeared over what your understanding of how I may or may not conduct myself.

Again there is a name for this kind of generalised talk of a people, and application of a generalisation applied broadly to one to make the point for a each person of that classification explicitly.

Don't be that guy.

Again that's not you that's in the diagnosis? Immediately before this you typed "have a 20 page argument w/someone who probably won't ever be able to see my point of view anyway & is very rigid or set in what they believe to be true" I am not in the diagnosis. These assertions were made specifically about me and about how I will view something and about flaws in my ability to reason. Don't say that I am in the diagnosis. I am not.

Each person on the spectrum has cluster of traits on the Autism Spectrum. Now overlay over this is which clusters, what degree of each trait, its expression of this, the life experiences of the individual, the therapy, medication, intelligence, self-management, environment....yet you make hard and fast assumptions given a phrase in the diagnosis and what it means to you?

Why are you doing this Grantanelli?

The reason is simple. This is a support forum. It is for people of both neurotypes. The position is not that Aspies are worse or weaker or wrong. It does acknowledge difference and it does acknowledge disability in the same way that vision impairment and/or blindness is a difference and a disability but does not inherently mean a blind person is wrong.

I see the above as a very damning view on Aspies and what you see us as individually and collectively and is in no way acknowledging us positively. I see many of your posts as doing the same but subtly and to a lesser extent.

Why?

Wow. What a sweetheart of a guy.

Now here is the crux of your position. Was I unnecessarily attacking him and was i chasing him off? Well from this post...not really. Certainly I was calling him on Ableist things but let's see what others were saying.

(Yes your views of his actions are well noted in how YOU talked to him there telling the guy you felt sorry for to "shut his mouth")

I told him to stop talking that way about AS. That was my friendly advice to him. Did he take it? No. I was disappointed in how he took it all to extreme because I thought he was stronger than that. But now my thoughts have changed about that part because maybe he doesn't know what he is saying will offend so he felt better off leaving. Do I miss him? Not really.


What I saw there what you were doing was just asking him why he does these things is all and calling him out on it and not letting him walk away from it. I didn't think you were doing it to scare him off. You can unintentionally scare people off like I did with maggiedoll, and kassianne.

[Natalia Evans]

Hmmm...if Granatelli's decided to bugger off, so be it. He seemed to have issues about AS that no other poster had and I myself butted heads with him enough times to not really miss him.

Case closed.

Chris,
I don't agree with Grafton on everything here, but I, for one, was very bothered also by some of granatelli's posts.  I just winced and went on, but the feeling was there.  And I think I'm NT :-)
And I don't feel that NT problems are not given equal weight.
For whatever it is worth.
JM

Sir_Les,

After going over some of these posts in this and the other thread, I find myself agreeing with you: digs are digs. And subtle digs are the hardest to deal with. And subtle digs that imply that because someone is ..., their opinion is naturally biased (and WRONG), negates the purpose of this board.

I actually had to go look up ableism. There is no excuse for it.

And I see why you keep pursuing it - it keeps sliding away, without being resolved.

You don't need my support. I'm just coming down on the same side of the fence because I agree with this belief.
Alicia

Sir Les - you have made your case with clarity and dignity.  I am pleased you chose to do so in a separate thread and even if granatelli chooses not to/doesn't have time/simply doesn't reply then you have made us all think about the way we act ourselves and hopefully we'll all be more aware of the things we say and the way we say them.  That can only ever be a good thing.

 I admire you for being able to stand up and be counted and I agree that it should be in public as behind the scenes can lead to too many 'he said, no HE said' kind of dialogues.  This way we can all see and comment on what is said.  Nothing you have said is unpleasant, simply true.  The truth is often uncomfortable but it doesn't make it less true.

A good argument here. Will granatelli back out again like he always does?

I find it annoying when people back out of arguments. I like some good drama.

What did the owner of the site Grafton think about all this? Kit.....

Chris, it was already contained on the other thread.

Les didn't need guidance sorting these issues. He was simply correct. Granatelli made a lot of ableist offensive statements. I was more patient about them than Les was, but being that patient with them was not required. It is hardly the first time it had been brought up. Granatelli had ignored more gentle attempts and I fully support Les in saying that enough's enough. Unfortunately, I am busy and Les did not communicate to me that he was frustrated and upset when so many other members responded by challenging his methods instead of recognizing the validity of his point and valuing that above his 'tone.' I thought he was handling that well or I would have yelled at the readership and locked the thread. Instead he found his last straw and has left.

And I am disgusted with the whole affair and wonder what the hell I am doing hosting a forum where Les' list of 'all of the above' has happened to him.

The elephant that needs to be eaten is the way this group abruptly managed to turn into something that seems to value NT communication styles so much that granatelli's semi-subtle bigotry was accepted and even defended, while devaluing AS communication styles so much that Les' honest response to being subjected to bigotry got him lambasted.

Fuck me!!!

Kit why are these people say these kind of things. He was so hard done by and it was just me right? I mean no one took the view that he was poisonous right?

What do you think? They didn't like what he said either. I just rather laughed at his comments than getting all insulted. I recall one of the NT members there saying I was also offended with what I said there but I didn't argue about it because I don't remember saying I was offended by it. I remember saying there I found it funny what he say about AS. But they finally said something about it when you made it an issue and we all stepped in. But you were the one who called it out first and kept shoving it and then he left the forum due to his wife's situation and then he came back and then you brought the issue back which I thought was funny. I was wondering when you were going to do that. Then others decided to step in and say they feel the same way about him too.

Heck I am sure lot of aspies felt that way about him on WP and I sometimes wonder if he had the mods on his back about it. I saw a member mentioning him in her post and it was obvious she was talking about him just by what she was saying about that user. But she wouldn't tell me in PM who she was talking about but I figure who anyway. But he stopped posting on WP too all together after what happened on the other board.

Maybe we can all call you a hero eh? Like I called myself a hero about sins being demodded.

[Natalia Evans]

Picking on a pregnant woman? A new low even for your Les.

Maybe he didn't even know?

Oh well, just as long as I am here, I shouldn't expect special treatment and if I can't take the heat here or the stress, I can just simply leave until I am better.

[Callaway]

What forum was this on?

[RageBeoulve]

Not intensity, so it sucks.

[Natalia Evans]

Look, you dicks can do whatever the hell you want, and I'm sure you will. I really don't give a fuck.

But you have to imagine that Kit right now is under a lot of stress. Considering she had a miscarriage before this pregnancy you can imagine that she is a little concerned about that happening again. Now I think she probably deserves a little slack at the moment.

Now like I said, call her out and what not, but don't act surprised when I think it's a cunt act.

All fake internet friendships/acquaintances aside, You act is becoming increasingly boring lately Les, give it a rest, you aren't the internet police.

No I am not under lot of stress. I was back in May when I first found out and my husband and I were fighting more often after that because of my crazy emotions and mood swings. Even more things were annoying me that didn't usually annoy me and I think I am feeling better now and less sensitive. But I was never like those other pregnant women I read at Babycenter. They seem too sensitive. But sometimes I worry about a stillborn and am hoping I have this baby and not a stillborn.

Lately I my mind has been dumb because I don't always feel the mental energy to stick for myself because I am always lost with words but this time I did have the words. Maybe it's me losing my brain like I have read about pregnancy. Some of us lose our minds meaning we get dumber.

[Natalia Evans]

What forum was this on?

ASD relationships.

[richard]

karmas a bitch sir les. maybe this is why you have so many health problems? i recently saw karma in action. my moms house got completely flooded in a monsoon after a wildfire and she had to move. she's married to a child abuser/molester and all most all of her shit was completely ruined, with that said,
i hope you fucking die of a heart attack.

[RageBeoulve]

Wat?

[richard]

there was a wildfire on the beautiful mountains here, and we get summer thunderstorm seasons. well the backside of this mountain was burned up so when it rained it basically turned into a parkinglot and flooded an area called doney park. it destroyed a bunch of homes including my mothers, heres the facebook page

http://www.facebook.com/flagfloodwatch

and this happend because shes married to an awful man. it finally came back on her, and im happy it did