Obamacare Bill passes

[Osensitive1]

What is so bad about it?

 Europeans don't realize what's being proposed is nothing like universal health care in other countries, not even slightly similar. They also don't understand the basic mistrust of government in the US.  Most likely there will be a public option in the future, which will go hand in hand with the manditory enforcement. However, government mandated health insurance isn't universal health care. Many are justly nervous because it could easily be a good or bad thing, and it in no way addresses the cost of medical care which is a big part of the problem here. Everyone's already been stressed too long over the economy and this stuff is kind of scary. Many in the US are against it simply because it's so confusing, they don't understand what's going on much less what it really means for them.

[odeon]

What is so bad about it?

 Europeans don't realize what's being proposed is nothing like universal health care in other countries, not even slightly similar. They also don't understand the basic mistrust of government in the US.  Most likely there will be a public option in the future, which will go hand in hand with the manditory enforcement. However, government mandated health insurance isn't universal health care. Many are justly nervous because it could easily be a good or bad thing, and it in no way addresses the cost of medical care which is a big part of the problem here. Everyone's already been stressed too long over the economy and this stuff is kind of scary. Many in the US are against it simply because it's so confusing, they don't understand what's going on much less what it really means for them.

I can see your point.

I think what we (meaning the Europeans) react against is how a significant part of your population does not have any health care options at all, and how it seems (to us, as reported here) that for some strange reason, so many seem to oppose a change.

I do hope that something good comes out of the Obama bill.

[Osensitive1]

I can see your point.

I think what we (meaning the Europeans) react against is how a significant part of your population does not have any health care options at all, and how it seems (to us, as reported here) that for some strange reason, so many seem to oppose a change.

I do hope that something good comes out of the Obama bill.

Surely everyone hopes for the good. It's understandable the concept of health insurance is odd for those in countries with universal care. As for the numbers, there is a percentage of the uncovered who choose to not have health insurance. Healthy single people who only visit a doctor once or twice per year will find the medical cost cheaper than the insurance. There's also a percentage who qualify for the existing government health care, but don't use it. Not sure why; it may be the stigma of government assistance or they just don't want the government in their business, who knows. Children of poor families, the disabled, and the elderly already have the option of medical care provided by the government. The people with the most issue here are lower middle-class families who make enough to keep off government assistance, but the cost of health care forces their income below the poverty level. Also, anyone with very serious health problems which their insurance won't cover, covers very little, or they just don't have the money period. No doubt, these need to be addressed. So, when you hear the numbers of X% in the US don't have healthcare, they really mean don't have health insurance.

[odeon]

Yes, that much I know. Around 40 000 000 people in the US are without a health insurance, according to the media here.

[Callaway]

Watched it live as it happened. I think I'll move to Suriname. 

Because...? The US is pretty much the last Western country without a health care insurance available to every citizen. I must say that I (along with many other Europeans, it seems) have a very hard time understanding why so many people seem to be against Obama's health care bill. What is so bad about it? What is so bad about not being completely in the hands of Eli Lily & Co?

For me, it's because there is no public option, which would be the government offering an option to buy health insurance from them.  Instead, we will be forced to buy health insurance from one of the health insurance companies, who have had no limits placed on what they can charge for their policies, or we will have to pay a fine of 2.5% of our annual income or up to $695, whichever is larger.  Also, they will not have to cover adults with pre-existing conditions for another four years and they will not have to cover children with pre-existing conditions for six months, although the fines for not buying health insurance start right away.  Because of this bill, health insurance companies' stocks have risen significantly, even though they have fought the new regulations that will be placed on them tooth and nail because they don't want to be forced to cover people with pre-existing conditions.

So you'll be forced into their hands? That fine, if you don't buy from a health care company, will it just be a punishment or will it actually cover something?

This is fucked up.

The fine would just be a punishment and it would not pay for health insurance.

For me personally, right now we have health insurance through my husband's employer, so I think we will have health insurance and we won't have to pay a fine.

Several years ago, my husband lost his job which had health insurance that covered us, so we paid the COBRA coverage for the eighteen months we were able to do it, then we were unable to find private health insurance that would cover our daughter.  Eventually, we discovered that we were entitled to purchase "continuation coverage" from the same insurance company we had paid the COBRA to, because they offered such a policy and could not turn us down.  If we were in such a situation again, perhaps the fact that insurance companies can't exclude children from coverage due to pre-existing conditions after six months pass would be helpful to us, but if they can charge any price they want for this coverage, perhaps we would be unable to pay it anyway.  If this happens, then we would have to pay a fine, which I think is completely ridiculous.

There is a dwarf famiily on television here, the Roloffs.  The parents and one of their children are dwarfs and they can't buy health insurance because they have pre-existing conditions and the dad is self-employed.  However, they pay out of pocket for their medical expenses.  Under the new law, they will have to purchase health insurance somehow or else they would be fined.  Perhaps some high risk pools will be set up so they can actually buy coverage that will cover the parents as well as their chilldren, but health insurance companies won't have to cover adults with pre-existing conditions for another four years.  Why should they be forced to buy something that won't even cover their pre-existing conditions?

What I wanted was nationalized health care that would put health insurance companies out of business, but this is not what we have. 

[Osensitive1]

Yes, that much I know. Around 40 000 000 people in the US are without a health insurance, according to the media here.

Yes, do recall last hearing 16% is how that works out, but have no idea of the percentage of that which is by choice. Hopefully it will all work out fine. Everyone had the same angst when Clinton took office and put Hillary in charge of welfare reform. We wern't in the financial crisis we have now at that time, but it really ended up doing a lot of good. It put an end to a lot of abuse going on in the system and gave lower middle-class families the option to have coverage for their children at little to no cost, when this was only provided to families in the poverty level before. Most likely the big anxiety factor over the current proposal is the 'insurance' factor. We know insurance costs, it has premiums, it has co-payments, it has percentages not covered; and there's that mystery of the fine. No one has yet to say how much on any of it.

[Osensitive1]

What I wanted was nationalized health care that would put health insurance companies out of business, but this is not what we have. 

The idea of a government monopoly on health insurance sits very ill with some.

[Callaway]

Yes, that much I know. Around 40 000 000 people in the US are without a health insurance, according to the media here.

Yes, do recall last hearing 16% is how that works out, but have no idea of the percentage of that which is by choice. Hopefully it will all work out fine. Everyone had the same angst when Clinton took office and put Hillary in charge of welfare reform. We wern't in the financial crisis we have now at that time, but it really ended up doing a lot of good. It put an end to a lot of abuse going on in the system and gave lower middle-class families the option to have coverage for their children at little to no cost, when this was only provided to families in the poverty level before. Most likely the big anxiety factor over the current proposal is the 'insurance' factor. We know insurance costs, it has premiums, it has co-payments, it has percentages not covered; and there's that mystery of the fine. No one has yet to say how much on any of it.

I wanted Hillary Clinton's health care plan to pass.

It is because of safeguards she did manage to get passed that we even had the option of buying the COBRA and continuation coverage.

[Callaway]

What I wanted was nationalized health care that would put health insurance companies out of business, but this is not what we have. 

The idea of a government monopoly on health insurance sits very ill with some.

You're right.  That's a good point.

[Parts]

What I wanted was nationalized health care that would put health insurance companies out of business, but this is not what we have. 

The idea of a government monopoly on health insurance sits very ill with some.

The idea of some bureaucrat government or corporate deciding what they will cover does sit well with me.  Having a government option could be the way to go and keep both sides honest

[Christopher McCandless]

What I wanted was nationalized health care that would put health insurance companies out of business, but this is not what we have. 

The idea of a government monopoly on health insurance sits very ill with some.

Namely those who make an awful lot of money from the status quo and the grassroots republicans who suck on their lies...

[Osensitive1]

The idea of some bureaucrat government or corporate deciding what they will cover does sit well with me.  Having a government option could be the way to go and keep both sides honest

This is true, and the main reason so many were sold on the idea. This should have been the first step though.

Namely those who make an awful lot of money from the status quo and the grassroots republicans who suck on their lies...

Not true. There's plenty of people who don't make lots of money who don't like the idea of the government having complete control over anything period.

[odeon]

What I wanted was nationalized health care that would put health insurance companies out of business, but this is not what we have. 

The idea of a government monopoly on health insurance sits very ill with some.

I don't understand why private health care insurance companies should be preferred. After all, we've (hopefully) elected the government but we have no way of influencing the health care industry, in any way.

[odeon]

What I wanted was nationalized health care that would put health insurance companies out of business, but this is not what we have. 

The idea of a government monopoly on health insurance sits very ill with some.

The idea of some bureaucrat government or corporate deciding what they will cover does sit well with me.  Having a government option could be the way to go and keep both sides honest

yes, there's that, too.

[Peter]

I like the UK system; everyone pays according to their means, so nobody is put in the situation of not being able to afford healthcare, and wealthy individuals can buy insurance or pay directly for private healthcare if they want a higher standard of care or treatments that aren't available on the NHS, just as they can opt to pay for private tuition for their kids, while still paying into the public healthcare and school systems.