Discuss GalileoAce

[Eclair]

Really everyone needs to take a step back and see how damaging gay rights is to our (disabled) rights. That is my objection. I don't give a damn whatever religious or sexual activity people get on with in their lives. I object when their activities start to impinge on my rights and opportunities. How does that make me a bigot?

Since you are such a learned creature, Hadron, you will know, often minority groups fight against each other in much the same way. Hence you are following the crowd.

I'd suggest you are ignorant on the subject of it, as we all are until we go through it.

You can call it a lifestyle choice all you want, clearly GA has had these feelings since a young child and completely unaware of your social theories.

I wish he would take you off ignore, only for the fact of, it shows he is strong in what he believes in.

Most of your beliefs are based on theory, not your own personal practice.

[GalileoAce]

That makes you gay, then.

What's wrong with being gay?

Isn't Duke Nukem the one who goes on about fucking dogs anyway? As if you'd care what he thinks?

True, but it was more an open question.

The same reason that GA has decided that this week he is a woman. Because they are failing at society and need something to hide behind. Its about saving face - its harder to fit in as a straight atheist male than it is if you join a religious clique or become gay. Really we are talking about misplaced blame - rather than recognise where they are going wrong in the current system, they try to switch into a different set of parameters. GA is ultimately going to end up being disappointed.

Err... I didn't decide this week. Or this year. Or even this decade. I've always been this way. I've always had these feelings. I tried to bury them, ignore them. Be as society said I should be.

But I can't, won't.

My decision to act on them goes back as far as 7 years ago. I've hidden behind being male for years. It's not me. It's not who I am. I can't be what society says I should be. I want to be me. I want to stop hiding.

Here you go again, talking about issues so authoritatively as though you're an expert, when really you don't even have the slimmest grasp of what these issues are really about.

You don't 'become' gay. It's not a choice. Not like someone wakes up and decides I'm going to be gay today. And being gay isn't about having sex with the same gender. It's about being attracted to the same gender.

[GalileoAce]

I'm not a he. Dammit.

["couldbecousin"]

are you closed minded?  these subjects are very pertinent to you if you would take them for their lesson.

I'm not closed minded. I know what I am.

yes but you will viewed as a homosexual.  this way you can get to know the mind of the bigots that argue against you.

now take hadron off ignore.  you may learn something....right or wrong.

I think its a tad disingenious to call me one. But that is basically how Stonewall et al take up loads of political capital. Anyone who argues against them gets branded as an xenophobe. They are no better than the Pope when he mistreated Galileo.

Really everyone needs to take a step back and see how damaging gay rights is to our (disabled) rights. That is my objection. I don't give a damn whatever religious or sexual activity people get on with in their lives. I object when their activities start to impinge on my rights and opportunities. How does that make me a bigot?

How are you harmed] by equal rights for gay people? If gay couples are allowed to marry, for instance, how does that impinge upon your rights and opportunities?

[McGiver]

are you closed minded?  these subjects are very pertinent to you if you would take them for their lesson.

I'm not closed minded. I know what I am.

yes but you will viewed as a homosexual.  this way you can get to know the mind of the bigots that argue against you.

now take hadron off ignore.  you may learn something....right or wrong.

I think its a tad disingenious to call me one. But that is basically how Stonewall et al take up loads of political capital. Anyone who argues against them gets branded as an xenophobe. They are no better than the Pope when he mistreated Galileo.

Really everyone needs to take a step back and see how damaging gay rights is to our (disabled) rights. That is my objection. I don't give a damn whatever religious or sexual activity people get on with in their lives. I object when their activities start to impinge on my rights and opportunities. How does that make me a bigot?

How are you harmed] by equal rights for gay people? If gay couples are allowed to marry, for instance, how does that impinge upon your rights and opportunities?

apparently there are only so many equal rights to go around.  i think that he is afraid that once people stop gay bashing then they will begin disabled people bashing.  a natural progeression, really.

[GalileoAce]

are you closed minded?  these subjects are very pertinent to you if you would take them for their lesson.

I'm not closed minded. I know what I am.

yes but you will viewed as a homosexual.  this way you can get to know the mind of the bigots that argue against you.

now take hadron off ignore.  you may learn something....right or wrong.

I think its a tad disingenious to call me one. But that is basically how Stonewall et al take up loads of political capital. Anyone who argues against them gets branded as an xenophobe. They are no better than the Pope when he mistreated Galileo.

Really everyone needs to take a step back and see how damaging gay rights is to our (disabled) rights. That is my objection. I don't give a damn whatever religious or sexual activity people get on with in their lives. I object when their activities start to impinge on my rights and opportunities. How does that make me a bigot?

How are you harmed] by equal rights for gay people? If gay couples are allowed to marry, for instance, how does that impinge upon your rights and opportunities?

apparently there are only so many equal rights to go around.  i think that he is afraid that once people stop gay bashing then they will begin disabled people bashing.  a natural progeression, really.

They already do.

[Christopher McCandless]

Humans individually are quite intelligent. But in groups they are not. This has been proven in at least one study, possibly more.

So why on earth would anyone want to follow what society says?

Most of the time you do what society says, whether you admit to it or not. Its about picking your battles.

Really everyone needs to take a step back and see how damaging gay rights is to our (disabled) rights. That is my objection. I don't give a damn whatever religious or sexual activity people get on with in their lives. I object when their activities start to impinge on my rights and opportunities. How does that make me a bigot?

You're a moron. Standing up for minority rights, no matter the group can only help other minorities, pave the way as it were.

Completely incorrect, as I have already explained in this thread. The successes of Gay rights have not helped us, instead it has meant that political capital has been spent on them rather than disabled people. Its disgusting.

[McGiver]

are you closed minded?  these subjects are very pertinent to you if you would take them for their lesson.

I'm not closed minded. I know what I am.

yes but you will viewed as a homosexual.  this way you can get to know the mind of the bigots that argue against you.

now take hadron off ignore.  you may learn something....right or wrong.

I think its a tad disingenious to call me one. But that is basically how Stonewall et al take up loads of political capital. Anyone who argues against them gets branded as an xenophobe. They are no better than the Pope when he mistreated Galileo.

Really everyone needs to take a step back and see how damaging gay rights is to our (disabled) rights. That is my objection. I don't give a damn whatever religious or sexual activity people get on with in their lives. I object when their activities start to impinge on my rights and opportunities. How does that make me a bigot?

How are you harmed] by equal rights for gay people? If gay couples are allowed to marry, for instance, how does that impinge upon your rights and opportunities?

apparently there are only so many equal rights to go around.  i think that he is afraid that once people stop gay bashing then they will begin disabled people bashing.  a natural progeression, really.

They already do.

i was being facetious.  is there a smiley for that?

[Osensitive1]

Completely incorrect, as I have already explained in this thread. The successes of Gay rights have not helped us, instead it has meant that political capital has been spent on them rather than disabled people. Its disgusting.

Why do you assume money that has been spent on perpetuating gay rights would have otherwise been spent on the disabled?

["couldbecousin"]

What has religion got to do with being gay? 

Everything - all the LGBT stuff uses both a religious mentality and arguments. If you do a proper comparision, it would be very hard to illustrate that homosexuality is nothing more or less than a religious belief.

Eh?  You think gay people are attracted to people of their own gender because of religious beliefs? What religious beliefs are those? You've completely lost me...

Being attracted to your own gender is no different to any other religious belief. "I must do this because the Lord tells me to" "I have a vision from God" et yadda. There is absolutely no difference in principle between the gay rights movement and any other church.

I have never in my life seen, heard or read any statement by a gay person saying "I must be with my own gender because I had a vision/God told me to." Please explain! 

Replace God with the unshakable belief that man must shove dick up anothers arse and you get a little closer to my point...

I have never heard anyone say that "Man must shove dick up another's arse." Where are you getting this?! 

Do I really have to spell out my argument in dripping detail so that you get it? Compare Stonewall et al to a religious movement or group and you find that they behave in exactly the same way. They all have their delusions that they follow. They all think that they have the right to get offended if someone questions their delusions, moreover they believe that those who offend them should be punished for doing so. Along with this, they have an extensive set of rituals that go well beyond fucking people up the arse. They claim to have a culture.

Structually and practically, it is a religion and should be treated as such. There is no decent scientific evidence that people are born gay - rather they have been taken in by the ideas behind it. It is a lifestyle and a lifestyle choice.

So all gay people are actually straight, and just forcing themselves to have sex with people of their own gender, because they think the "lifestyle" is cool? Do you think anyone is truly gay?  

I think we have choices over our own actions. There are people who are strongly convinced that they are born religious, that their beliefs are a basis of life and all decisions that they make. Is that any different to the argument that gay people make? Really they have made a choice to be gay, in the same way the devoutly religious person does not see that they have made a choice to be devoutly religious. It is just another way of abdicating responsbility for ones own actions. They are choosing to act against a set of defined norms and trying to change them for no good reason. Really they are just weak people, however much they want to pretend otherwise. Same with the majority of the population who base their thinking around religious mentality, whether they follow a recognised religion or not.

In the other corner, we have black and disabled people who have (or had in the case of black people) no choice whatsover in acting against the current set of social norms. Correcting these social norms should be the priority. Not indulging the whims of feeble minds at the expense of far more worthy causes.

This is the strangest discussion I've ever had with anyone...I've never heard any religious person say he was "born religious"---taught to be religious, by parents or by a pastor, but not born religious.

No - but most religious people who stick at it cannot see things another way, same with gay people.

And I find it very hard to believe that truly heterosexual people deliberately act against their heterosexuality just to "act against a set of defined norms." I will ask you again, do you really believe that everyone is born straight?

I am not saying its a delibrate choice, not at least on a concious level. But it is a decision that acts against the current set of social norms, which they then expect everyone to change to fit around them. Its the same way that someone might become religious. They claim that they have a calling of some sort in many cases. But very few wake up one morning and just like that decide they want to believe in God. Rather, they drift into it.

But what would be the motive for a genuinely straight person to "drift into" homosexuality? If he was not at all attracted to people of his own gender, do you really think the appeal of rebelling against convention would be enough to keep him from dating/falling in love with the people who did attract him?

The same reason that GA has decided that this week he is a woman. Because they are failing at society and need something to hide behind. Its about saving face - its harder to fit in as a straight atheist male than it is if you join a religious clique or become gay. Really we are talking about misplaced blame - rather than recognise where they are going wrong in the current system, they try to switch into a different set of parameters. GA is ultimately going to end up being disappointed.

Last time, I promise: Do you believe that all gay/bi/transgendered people are actually straight people "taken in" by the appeal of an alternative lifestyle?

[GalileoAce]

Humans individually are quite intelligent. But in groups they are not. This has been proven in at least one study, possibly more.

So why on earth would anyone want to follow what society says?

Most of the time you do what society says, whether you admit to it or not. Its about picking your battles.

Really everyone needs to take a step back and see how damaging gay rights is to our (disabled) rights. That is my objection. I don't give a damn whatever religious or sexual activity people get on with in their lives. I object when their activities start to impinge on my rights and opportunities. How does that make me a bigot?

You're a moron. Standing up for minority rights, no matter the group can only help other minorities, pave the way as it were.

Completely incorrect, as I have already explained in this thread. The successes of Gay rights have not helped us, instead it has meant that political capital has been spent on them rather than disabled people. Its disgusting.

Oh boo fucking hoo. You need to try harder then. There's hundreds of thousands of voices out there all clamouring to heard by the various governments and institutions. You just need to make yourself be heard.

Gay people are obviously better at it than you are. So go cry me river, you sook.

Completely incorrect, as I have already explained in this thread. The successes of Gay rights have not helped us, instead it has meant that political capital has been spent on them rather than disabled people. Its disgusting.

Why do you assume money that has been spent on perpetuating gay rights would have otherwise been spent on the disabled?

Exactly. Funding isn't linear. The governments could hand out funding to the gay cause (or not as the case most likely is, considering it's almost entirely self funded), whilst still giving funding to disability rights.

Just because one group gets something doesn't mean other's won't. You're thinking to narrowly and linearly.

[Christopher McCandless]

are you closed minded?  these subjects are very pertinent to you if you would take them for their lesson.

I'm not closed minded. I know what I am.

yes but you will viewed as a homosexual.  this way you can get to know the mind of the bigots that argue against you.

now take hadron off ignore.  you may learn something....right or wrong.

I think its a tad disingenious to call me one. But that is basically how Stonewall et al take up loads of political capital. Anyone who argues against them gets branded as an xenophobe. They are no better than the Pope when he mistreated Galileo.

Really everyone needs to take a step back and see how damaging gay rights is to our (disabled) rights. That is my objection. I don't give a damn whatever religious or sexual activity people get on with in their lives. I object when their activities start to impinge on my rights and opportunities. How does that make me a bigot?

How are you harmed by equal rights for gay people? If gay couples are allowed to marry, for instance, how does that impinge upon your rights and opportunities?

As I have pointed out - it costs political capital to get things through and I could think of other things that it could have been spent on. Political capital is finite and precious. I actually have no objection at all to gay relationships, as I have already said its up to them what they do with their lives. In the UK they are equal under law, so they have all they should get. However, having got what they want, they are now occupying lots of political capital on things like blood donations and allowing all gay people from around the world to immigrate, along with the renaming of civil partnerships. What they are asking for is either trivial, semantics or outright ridiculous.

apparently there are only so many equal rights to go around.  i think that he is afraid that once people stop gay bashing then they will begin disabled people bashing.  a natural progeression, really.

In practise that is the way things work. All equal rights bills refer to groups of people. Personally I think the current system should be replaced with a direct social meritocracy (positions given out on a blind basis, only allowed to ask for criteria that is strictly neccessary and so on). But that is not going to happen and rights are being done in an order, very slowly. Disabled rights have to go above gay rights. When we have a fair shot at education, are treated with respect and have fair access to jobs then gay rights might need to come back on the radar. But for now, our rights are being neglected whilst capital is being wasted elsewhere.

[Callaway]

I wish he would take you off ignore, only for the fact of, it shows he is strong in what he believes in.

Most of your beliefs are based on theory, not your own personal practice.

I don't see why he should take him off ignore, really.  Hadron is obviously a bigot who argues the contrary position regardless of the facts.  

I guess you could argue that dealing with Hadron here could be practice for dealing with ignorant bigots IRL when GA leaves home dressed as a woman.

[Eclair]

Humans individually are quite intelligent. But in groups they are not. This has been proven in at least one study, possibly more.

So why on earth would anyone want to follow what society says?

Most of the time you do what society says, whether you admit to it or not. Its about picking your battles.

Isn't this what you so staunchly support, Hadron? Going against the grain, standing up for what you believe in?

Now you want GA to conform?

[Christopher McCandless]

Completely incorrect, as I have already explained in this thread. The successes of Gay rights have not helped us, instead it has meant that political capital has been spent on them rather than disabled people. Its disgusting.

Why do you assume money that has been spent on perpetuating gay rights would have otherwise been spent on the disabled?

Its not about money, political capital is about what the government does. Currently disabled rights are nothing like as stringent as they should be.