I hope Les has another heart attack soon

['andersom']

Not in every aspect of life neseccarily, but in some aspects. It also is a huge social challenge. And that should change, but not by smearing people that are different from the way you want to present yourself.

So your grand plan for changing it is what exactly? I have done a lot more than you have for the cause and it is a damn sight harder if our membership are convincing each other to miss the point and go on wild goose chases.

I feel so deeply known by you now. Almost crying with gratitude. [/sarcasm]

You are right, I have no idea what you have done in life. You have no idea about me either. I love the symbol of the wild goose btw. Going where she wants.

Miss the point yet again.

Sorry that you missed it.

[P7PSP]

What's with the Brandon Teena comments btw? That the best you can come up with?

Actually that was too rank to leave so I took it out. I was wrong to put that up.

[El]

PMSElle - I'd like to "grab a coffee" with you someday too, if that's what they're calling it these days

Yes, these days us crazy kids call "going out and talking over a cup of coffee in some coffe shop or another" "grabbing a coffee."

(And, I'd even let you assert your manliness by footing the bill!   )

I'm totally going to have to out of this conversation after a couple more turns or else I'm going to wake up with Soph somehow having teleported into my bed, aren't I?

No, he hates to travel. The OCD thing. He'll have you magically teleported into his and Flo won't give up her side of the bed so it will be a tight squeeze.

But I hate travel too!!!  Damn it!!!

only time I ever travel willingly is for boys I like

Don't forget to bring your furball too

Make sure to beam my luffable furball along when you teleport me!

I'd hardly call criticism of Soph's sexual orientation "bashing" since she has made several contradictory statements regarging her orientation AND a complete lack of sexual experience. Soph is a confused little split-tail who needs to get laid about 100 times or so before she starts lecturing people on complex sexual issues.

Would you take advice on sex from a nun or a priest who had never been laid?? I didn't think so.

So is 100 times the minimum before you can be certain of your sexual orientation, scrap, or is that just a rough estimate?  Also, how does one have to distribute one's sexual partners through those 100 times?  Should there be a 50/50 split between sexual experiences with men and sexual experiences with women?  And, how are we defining sex, here?  If one has had oral sex 100 times, does one have the ability to understand one's sexual identity, or does there need to be actual vaginal or anal penetration (depending which is applicable/possible)?  I'm quite intruigued.

She will never know what it's like to have a dick, and spend every waking moment of your life, searching for a hole to stick it in. That's what it means to be male.

Thanks for the succinct definition of the male experience.  In your opinion, when men stop compulsively pussy-chasing in exhange for other pursiuts (ranging from careers to video games to drugs), do they become female, or just cease to become male?

Claiming a "male" identitiy and then claiming that you weren't interested in ever having a penis. As I've said before, you can't ever understand what it means to be male until you've experienced having a penis, AND having the desire, every second that you're awake, to shove it it in the nearest willing pussy you can find. Ask any guy here or anywhere. When you're awake, you're horny, and that's what comes with elevated testosterone levels.

[...]

If you were truly male brained then you would want to blow loads of baby batter all over their faces.

...wait, I thought men wanted to put their cocks in holes, not ejaculate onto faces.  Does it have to be both, or is one sufficient in order to be considered male?

Drops in estrogen levels mean less "womanly" behavior. Less desire to mate etc...

But I thought that horniness was a man-thing?  I'm so confused now.

 

For taking a few words out of context and mis-construeing what I was trying to say.

The brilliance of your rebuttal is matched only by its overall maturity.

 

For making me look like an arse

fixed

Actually, I think scrap did that all by himself.  I just helped highlight some of the arsiest arsiness.

[Parts]

I hope he lives to be 129 year old

['andersom']

 

[SleepyDragon]

I get up the next day, and behold! Five more pages of pure fun.

Wow... This thread is full ignorance and bullshit.

[massive infodump]

I hope you've learned something...But if not and you still hold to your bigot opinions it would be best if you kept them to yourselves. Commenting on something you either have little knowledge on or are unwilling to learn about is rather stupid.

Mate! If it's sympathy and understanding you're after, this — assuming the worst about your critics' intelligence and motivations — is a poor way to go about it.

Hadron: The world and its people will continue to carry on in ways you deem inappropriate. You don't have to like it, but if you can learn to tolerate it, you'll be better off.

Huh?

We've had this talk before, haven't we?    For mercy's sake, child, dumb it down a wee bit so the rest can get a chance to catch up with yeh.

As for the rest:  Even the most sensitive, intuitive, Theory-of-Mind-equipped person is not EVER going to experience life exactly the same way as anyone else. Talk to them online, be personally acquainted with them, live under the same roof as them, share a bed with them? You're still not inside their head, and you can NOT know what it's like to be them. What to do? Turn into a PC-obsessed ninny, never saying anything for fear of hurting someone's feelings? Go to the other extreme and blame the victims for causing their own problems? Or try to find a middle ground between the two?

A eye for the absurd and a functioning sense of humour are good assets. My most poignant transgender-awareness moment was back in the late 70s when a few of us were having a laugh over a cartoon. It was a picture of two guys, one of them saying to the other, "See, it's because I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body." After we'd had a laugh, there was a moment of quiet, and then one of the men there, an enormous teddy bear of a man with a huge mop of curly hair, said wistfully, "That's just how I feel." Made us all think, that did.

[GalileoAce]

If you live in some sort of communist commune then that sort of behaviour is OK. In the rest of the world it is not however. As for life skills, lets just say that I am one of the 3% of people who manage to live fully independantly - I assure you that I am fine.

Who are you to deteremine what's right or wrong? You're also generalising. "rest of the world", really? The whole world? You've been I take it?

Damaging? In what context? And you didn't answer my question: what do you mean by actual causes?

I would have thought the answer was obvious - how do clowns like yourself and Soph running around revelling in some self made pariah status help those with AS who actually want some sort of meaningful life. Please explain.

Self made pariah status? Show me the evidence that I have ever done something like that in relation to being Trans or being Autistic. And who are you to decree that I must help other AS people lead a meaningful life? That's their choice.
By god! How arrogant can you be? I mean I thought I was arrogant, but you sir...Well I tip my hat to you.

Tell me when they find your Y chromosome - until then, you are a woman. Why not join the flat earth society whilst at it though? I am sure you can find some people in your mindset.

By definition, XY = male, XX = female. Whether you like it or not.

Chromosomes do not determine gender. Yes it's easy, and dare I say autistic, to look at the chromosomes and go "Aha! That's how gender should be determined it makes sense!" but then up comes the intersex conditions such as CAIS, as I explained. How do you get around that discrepency? Do you call the CAIS woman a man for simply having 46XY chromosomes? If not then why can't you accept trans people?

Yeah because the world revolves around your wants. Are you intending to contribute anything back to society, by any chance?

But you're seemingly telling us that the world revolves around your wants.

Because you and others are associating AS with it - I have demonstated it enough. We are judged by our collective behaviour - stop letting the side down. It makes it harder to get opportunities for those of us who actually deserve it.

Associate AS with Trans? Show me clearly evidence that I or Soph have ever done that. There is conjectural evidence to suggest that for Trans people with AS the conditions are somewhat linked. Like how AS has comorbid conditions. Should we not associate those comorbidities with autism either?

I take that for a no then. I see no reason why everyone else should pay to support your pansexual or whatever nonsense; eventually people will get fed up with it. I have options. You don't - ffs why are you at a level where social services are helping you if anything but is the case.

LOL! So in your mind society will regress in openess and tolerance of uniqueness and difference? Sorry to break you heart, but all evidence suggests otherwise.

In many cases, seriously ill or disabled. Chromosomal disorders do have actual names though...

"Autistic people are just damaged in the head."

I dare you to tell an intersex person that they're seriously ill.

I wont be a burden on it, nor be enslaved by it.

You absolute hypocrit... How dare you desire not to be enslaved by society but decree that Soph or I must be.

Who are these "other people" who aren't gonna take me seriously?
You're creating these people in your head hadron. Complete bullshit.
So what is someone with Klinefelter's syndrome? A man or a woman? (in your expert opinion)

Male - ask the experts if you like. Having a Y chromosome makes someone male. People with XXY are referred to in general as male.
Next...

What about someone with CAIS?

Well as I actually have a lot of contact with real people, have set up and ran two very successful autism awareness events (which involved quell-surprise talking to people that need winning over, along with a good lot on our side). Who have you actually talked to? You really have no experience and no clue.

As for Aspergers, we have to define it as people who are unable to fit in, rather than just as eccentric. There has to be a compelling reason why people cannot fit in and yes the social expectations that people with AS cannot meet should be lifted. Though when people like you revel in being the pariah for no good reason, it is a lot harder to persuade people.

Wow... I think you've let your successes (which should be commended no doubt) go to your head, and in a big way. Just because you've done speeches and got stuff done in your specific field doesn't make you any more or less superior to Soph or I for having not done such.

Your definition of Aspergers is flawed. Almost anyone could fit that description.

It's all for the cauuuseee

I love that cat's expression! :lol:

rofl, Hadron lecturing people on stupidity...  

What I'm saying is, someone can appear to be 100% female externally, but actually be male, despite looking and being raised as a female? Yes?

No they can't.

I thought having a Y chromosome made you male, regadless of anything else though? (in your fantastic opinion I mean)

People with AS aren't denied any rights people without AS have. Yeah it's more difficult for us. Life sucks sometimes. Big fucking deal, you have to make your own way round these obstacles, not expect the world to change to suit you

XXY gives underdeveloped testicles, not no testicals.

Look up the "pure motives fallacy" whilst at this, clearly you have no understanding of disability rights (or the law surrounding it) by that last sentence.

What about CAIS people?

I get up the next day, and behold! Five more pages of pure fun.

Wow... This thread is full ignorance and bullshit.

[massive infodump]

I hope you've learned something...But if not and you still hold to your bigot opinions it would be best if you kept them to yourselves. Commenting on something you either have little knowledge on or are unwilling to learn about is rather stupid.

Mate! If it's sympathy and understanding you're after, this — assuming the worst about your critics' intelligence and motivations — is a poor way to go about it.

Not sympathy and only understanding is so far as being aware. My point for that post and most of the posts here are to increase awareness and knowledge about these issues. Someone who has no desire to learn about these issues, but still poo-poos them is ignorant. And willfully ignorant, which I just simply can not abide. Hadron has little knowledge in the area of gender and sexuality and is seemingly unwilling to learn about the issues instead decreeing that they're lifestyle choices and they isolate people from his all hallowed society.

Hadron: The world and its people will continue to carry on in ways you deem inappropriate. You don't have to like it, but if you can learn to tolerate it, you'll be better off.

Hear Hear!

[Alex179]

I identify people by sex, and not gender.   I mean, why go into the men's bathroom if you can't pee in the urinal (while standing)?    I don't care what they identify themselves as, if I see a woman, I call the person a she, and if I see a man, I call the person he.   Gender is all about gender roles, which is all societal conditioning.   Biological gender = sex.   Gender is garbage anyways, the entire concept that is.

[matthe]

I identify people by sex, and not gender.   I mean, why go into the men's bathroom if you can't pee in the urinal (while standing)? 

[Adam]

  I don't care what they identify themselves as, if I see a woman, I call the person a she, and if I see a man, I call the person he. 

Yeah because everybody walks round with their penis/vagina on show 24-7

Gender identity and gender roles/stereotypes are two different things. I think I am probably one of the most androgynous people I know when it comes to personality. I definitely don't fit into either gender role very well anyway.

As for why go int a men's toilet if you don't need to pee in a urinal, try and think about what could happen if a man (yes, someone perceived to be a man, regardless of what's in his pants) continually went into a women's bathroom. Good idea? No, didn't think so. Trans guys don't use men's toilets because they think it's some great thing to be able to piss in them, they use them because they want to be inconspicuous like anyone else. They want to pee without making a big song and dance about it.

[GalileoAce]

I identify people by sex, and not gender.   I mean, why go into the men's bathroom if you can't pee in the urinal (while standing)?

What do you do when you go to the toilet?
"Hey! Everyone! I'm peeing in the urinal! It's awesome! YEAH!"

Most people go to the toilets to..well go to the toilet.  I use mens toilets (considering I'd probably be arrested for using a womens given my appearence), and I haven't used a urinal since I was a child. And if the toilet is clean (which they rarely are) I'd even sit. :: shrugs ::

I don't care what they identify themselves as, if I see a woman, I call the person a she, and if I see a man, I call the person he.   Gender is all about gender roles, which is all societal conditioning.   Biological gender = sex.   Gender is garbage anyways, the entire concept that is.

So someone born a man who passes well as a woman is a woman to you? Fair enough, I can accept that...to a degree.

[Phlexor]

You mean you don't all use the disabled toilets?

[GalileoAce]

You mean you don't all use the disabled toilets?

I do if they're available, but I sometimes feel a little guilty using them as I'm not physically disabled.... But then.. It doesn't actually specify physical disability, and Autism is a disability, and to some degree transitioning person would be sort of disabled....

[Phlexor]

You mean you don't all use the disabled toilets?

I do if they're available, but I sometimes feel a little guilty using them as I'm not physically disabled.... But then.. It doesn't actually specify physical disability, and Autism is a disability, and to some degree transitioning person would be sort of disabled....

Well that's the thing. If you don't like crowds, big or small, and if you need room to flap your hands, the disabled toilets are a win!

Fuck I don't even use urinals or troughs, I likes my privacy.

Plus taking a shit in public toilets is full of wrong. You have to sit on that seat, and even if they do have those paper seat covers, sitting on them isn't much better. Hovering is feat in itself, and then you have to put up with really bad public toilet toilet paper.

I'm not as bad as Shit Break, but you get the idea.

[Christopher McCandless]

If you live in some sort of communist commune then that sort of behaviour is OK. In the rest of the world it is not however. As for life skills, lets just say that I am one of the 3% of people who manage to live fully independantly - I assure you that I am fine.

Who are you to deteremine what's right or wrong? You're also generalising. "rest of the world", really? The whole world? You've been I take it?

Most school children should at least know the tenets of capitalism, which is pretty much the axis the world spins on these days. Barter was so stone age.

Damaging? In what context? And you didn't answer my question: what do you mean by actual causes?

I would have thought the answer was obvious - how do clowns like yourself and Soph running around revelling in some self made pariah status help those with AS who actually want some sort of meaningful life. Please explain.

Self made pariah status? Show me the evidence that I have ever done something like that in relation to being Trans or being Autistic. And who are you to decree that I must help other AS people lead a meaningful life? That's their choice.
By god! How arrogant can you be? I mean I thought I was arrogant, but you sir...Well I tip my hat to you.

Calling yourself Trans is asking to be a pariah, I don't need to say anymore here to prove my point.

Tell me when they find your Y chromosome - until then, you are a woman. Why not join the flat earth society whilst at it though? I am sure you can find some people in your mindset.

By definition, XY = male, XX = female. Whether you like it or not.

Chromosomes do not determine gender. Yes it's easy, and dare I say autistic, to look at the chromosomes and go "Aha! That's how gender should be determined it makes sense!" but then up comes the intersex conditions such as CAIS, as I explained. How do you get around that discrepency? Do you call the CAIS woman a man for simply having 46XY chromosomes? If not then why can't you accept trans people?

No, gender is determined genetically and is well defined, whether you like it or not. Just like if you call the sky purple, it doesn't mean it isn't actually blue.

Yeah because the world revolves around your wants. Are you intending to contribute anything back to society, by any chance?

But you're seemingly telling us that the world revolves around your wants.

No, the world revolves around reality. And yes, your actions and the actions of others have real consequences.

Because you and others are associating AS with it - I have demonstated it enough. We are judged by our collective behaviour - stop letting the side down. It makes it harder to get opportunities for those of us who actually deserve it.

Associate AS with Trans? Show me clearly evidence that I or Soph have ever done that. There is conjectural evidence to suggest that for Trans people with AS the conditions are somewhat linked. Like how AS has comorbid conditions. Should we not associate those comorbidities with autism either?

The link is that more people with AS make that lifestyle choice

I take that for a no then. I see no reason why everyone else should pay to support your pansexual or whatever nonsense; eventually people will get fed up with it. I have options. You don't - ffs why are you at a level where social services are helping you if anything but is the case.

LOL! So in your mind society will regress in openess and tolerance of uniqueness and difference? Sorry to break you heart, but all evidence suggests otherwise.

In many cases, seriously ill or disabled. Chromosomal disorders do have actual names though...

"Autistic people are just damaged in the head."

I dare you to tell an intersex person that they're seriously ill.

They know it in most cases, depending on the disorder. It doesn't just effect their sex organs you know, much as you trivialise.

I wont be a burden on it, nor be enslaved by it.

You absolute hypocrit... How dare you desire not to be enslaved by society but decree that Soph or I must be.

Who are these "other people" who aren't gonna take me seriously?
You're creating these people in your head hadron. Complete bullshit.
So what is someone with Klinefelter's syndrome? A man or a woman? (in your expert opinion)

Male - ask the experts if you like. Having a Y chromosome makes someone male. People with XXY are referred to in general as male.
Next...

What about someone with CAIS?

What about them? Google it and see what it actually is. The welsh bureau for looking after druggies, if you cba.

Well as I actually have a lot of contact with real people, have set up and ran two very successful autism awareness events (which involved quell-surprise talking to people that need winning over, along with a good lot on our side). Who have you actually talked to? You really have no experience and no clue.

As for Aspergers, we have to define it as people who are unable to fit in, rather than just as eccentric. There has to be a compelling reason why people cannot fit in and yes the social expectations that people with AS cannot meet should be lifted. Though when people like you revel in being the pariah for no good reason, it is a lot harder to persuade people.

Wow... I think you've let your successes (which should be commended no doubt) go to your head, and in a big way. Just because you've done speeches and got stuff done in your specific field doesn't make you any more or less superior to Soph or I for having not done such.

Your definition of Aspergers is flawed. Almost anyone could fit that description.

Not at all true, for Aspergers to be a useful definition, there has to be some social expecation we actually cannot meet.

It's all for the cauuuseee

I love that cat's expression! :lol:

rofl, Hadron lecturing people on stupidity...  

What I'm saying is, someone can appear to be 100% female externally, but actually be male, despite looking and being raised as a female? Yes?

No they can't.

I thought having a Y chromosome made you male, regadless of anything else though? (in your fantastic opinion I mean)

People with AS aren't denied any rights people without AS have. Yeah it's more difficult for us. Life sucks sometimes. Big fucking deal, you have to make your own way round these obstacles, not expect the world to change to suit you

XXY gives underdeveloped testicles, not no testicals.

Look up the "pure motives fallacy" whilst at this, clearly you have no understanding of disability rights (or the law surrounding it) by that last sentence.

What about CAIS people?

I get up the next day, and behold! Five more pages of pure fun.

Wow... This thread is full ignorance and bullshit.

[massive infodump]

I hope you've learned something...But if not and you still hold to your bigot opinions it would be best if you kept them to yourselves. Commenting on something you either have little knowledge on or are unwilling to learn about is rather stupid.

Mate! If it's sympathy and understanding you're after, this — assuming the worst about your critics' intelligence and motivations — is a poor way to go about it.

Not sympathy and only understanding is so far as being aware. My point for that post and most of the posts here are to increase awareness and knowledge about these issues. Someone who has no desire to learn about these issues, but still poo-poos them is ignorant. And willfully ignorant, which I just simply can not abide. Hadron has little knowledge in the area of gender and sexuality and is seemingly unwilling to learn about the issues instead decreeing that they're lifestyle choices and they isolate people from his all hallowed society.

Hadron: The world and its people will continue to carry on in ways you deem inappropriate. You don't have to like it, but if you can learn to tolerate it, you'll be better off.

Hear Hear!

There is nothing to know, when someone actually comes up with some real science rather than just some collective delusions, please do let me know. All you have is a religious mentality and behaviour.