Questions for Callaway

[duncvis]

which one? 

[Calandale]

Enter Key of the Tarsier Elite

[El]

That is probably partly due to your NPD.  Women who are more isolated would be more likely to tolerate you.  Your wife was homeless when you met her, wasn't she?

Damn, careful with bias, Callaway. I could take issue with any number of the things you're implying here.

That women who like Calandale are isolated (in a bad way).
That women only tolerate him because they can't get any better, not because they genuinely like some of his qualities.
That a woman who has few/no female friends is isolated, and doesn't simply prefer males.
That Calandale's wife (whom you don't know in the slightest) may fit any of the above categories.
That homelessness implies a personal deficiency.

Homelessness implied that she would prefer to live with Calandale than on the streets, nothing more. 

I said nothing about whether or not she had many female friends, but she did leave him in the end, so his bad qualities ultimately outweighed his good qualities, at least in her eyes.

I believe that narcissists in general tend to choose people who are more isolated, move in on them very quickly and isolate them even more, so a person who had few friends, male or female, would be more likely to be targeted by one.

'At's basically what I got, though the homelessness, I also wondered if you meant that she might not have had an especially good social support system.

And, this isn't a comment on calandale or callaway, but just on isolation (something I dealt with recently, so it's still sorta fresh):  I've seen guys also try to sweep in on women who had goodish support systems but poor self-esteem/sense of self-preservation, but then isolate.  Pretty horrible to see happen, when you're part of the social support system.

It disturbs me not just because you dislike Calandale and I don't, but because of all the stereotypical social mores it reinforces.

What mores does it reinforce?

[Tristeza]

That is probably partly due to your NPD.  Women who are more isolated would be more likely to tolerate you.  Your wife was homeless when you met her, wasn't she?

Damn, careful with bias, Callaway. I could take issue with any number of the things you're implying here.

That women who like Calandale are isolated (in a bad way).
That women only tolerate him because they can't get any better, not because they genuinely like some of his qualities.
That a woman who has few/no female friends is isolated, and doesn't simply prefer males.
That Calandale's wife (whom you don't know in the slightest) may fit any of the above categories.
That homelessness implies a personal deficiency.

Homelessness implied that she would prefer to live with Calandale than on the streets, nothing more. 

I said nothing about whether or not she had many female friends, but she did leave him in the end, so his bad qualities ultimately outweighed his good qualities, at least in her eyes.

I believe that narcissists in general tend to choose people who are more isolated, move in on them very quickly and isolate them even more, so a person who had few friends, male or female, would be more likely to be targeted by one.

'At's basically what I got, though the homelessness, I also wondered if you meant that she might not have had an especially good social support system.

And, this isn't a comment on calandale or callaway, but just on isolation (something I dealt with recently, so it's still sorta fresh):  I've seen guys also try to sweep in on women who had goodish support systems but poor self-esteem/sense of self-preservation, but then isolate.  Pretty horrible to see happen, when you're part of the social support system.

It disturbs me not just because you dislike Calandale and I don't, but because of all the stereotypical social mores it reinforces.

What mores does it reinforce?

To me, it appears to reinforce the myth that women are naturally helpless and men naturally predatory...that women can't think for themselves and make their own decisions about what type of person with whom to get involved...and that certain men consciously isolate women in order to consciously manipulate them psychologically and/or emotionally.  It's not always that simple.

I don't think that men do any more conscious manipulating of women than women do of men.  I know just as many men whose lives were damaged by women as vice-versa.  People are people, after all - everyone has their own self-interests to advance. 

[Callaway]

That is probably partly due to your NPD.  Women who are more isolated would be more likely to tolerate you.  Your wife was homeless when you met her, wasn't she?

Damn, careful with bias, Callaway. I could take issue with any number of the things you're implying here.

That women who like Calandale are isolated (in a bad way).
That women only tolerate him because they can't get any better, not because they genuinely like some of his qualities.
That a woman who has few/no female friends is isolated, and doesn't simply prefer males.
That Calandale's wife (whom you don't know in the slightest) may fit any of the above categories.
That homelessness implies a personal deficiency.

Homelessness implied that she would prefer to live with Calandale than on the streets, nothing more. 

I said nothing about whether or not she had many female friends, but she did leave him in the end, so his bad qualities ultimately outweighed his good qualities, at least in her eyes.

I believe that narcissists in general tend to choose people who are more isolated, move in on them very quickly and isolate them even more, so a person who had few friends, male or female, would be more likely to be targeted by one.

'At's basically what I got, though the homelessness, I also wondered if you meant that she might not have had an especially good social support system.

And, this isn't a comment on calandale or callaway, but just on isolation (something I dealt with recently, so it's still sorta fresh):  I've seen guys also try to sweep in on women who had goodish support systems but poor self-esteem/sense of self-preservation, but then isolate.  Pretty horrible to see happen, when you're part of the social support system.

I would think that a lot of homeless people must not have a very good support system. 

I also have been part of the support system for someone who was then pretty much isolated from everyone else but the guy, who was abusive.  It was horrible to see.

[Callaway]

What mores does it reinforce?

To me, it appears to reinforce the myth that women are naturally helpless and men naturally predatory...that women can't think for themselves and make their own decisions about what type of person with whom to get involved...and that certain men consciously isolate women in order to consciously manipulate them psychologically and/or emotionally.  It's not always that simple.

I don't think that men do any more conscious manipulating of women than women do of men.  I know just as many men whose lives were damaged by women as vice-versa.  People are people, after all - everyone has their own self-interests to advance. 

I don't know how much of that sort of manipulation is conscious, but I think that men are more often naturally predatory and that men more often try to isolate their partners from their friends and family than women do.   I wonder if these sorts of relationships would usually become codependent relationships?

[odeon]

I have no problem with anyone here, but nor do I understand why other members have such a problem with Cal.

You'd have no problems with being compared to various dictators or called a nazi? I guess we're all different.

[odeon]

By hounded, I mean the pack mentality. By away,
I mean told to GTFO. Both have applied to me.
Both applied to Lit. Both applied to Scrap.

You have accused both me and Callaway for driving them away, directly. No pack mentality; you accused us.

[Tristeza]

I have no problem with anyone here, but nor do I understand why other members have such a problem with Cal.

You'd have no problems with being compared to various dictators or called a nazi? I guess we're all different.

I've been called draconian many times!     Wasn't he a bad guy, too??

Seriously, of course it would depend on the context.  But I don't know that I would take such comparisons seriously coming from someone like Cal.  He's pretty dramatic, by his own admission.   

[Tristeza]

What mores does it reinforce?

To me, it appears to reinforce the myth that women are naturally helpless and men naturally predatory...that women can't think for themselves and make their own decisions about what type of person with whom to get involved...and that certain men consciously isolate women in order to consciously manipulate them psychologically and/or emotionally.  It's not always that simple.

I don't think that men do any more conscious manipulating of women than women do of men.  I know just as many men whose lives were damaged by women as vice-versa.  People are people, after all - everyone has their own self-interests to advance. 

I don't know how much of that sort of manipulation is conscious, but I think that men are more often naturally predatory and that men more often try to isolate their partners from their friends and family than women do.   I wonder if these sorts of relationships would usually become codependent relationships?

I guess so.  I'm not sure what co-dependent really means, though.  I keep hearing different definitions.

My question would be:  why do certain women willingly accept controlling behaviors from guys, anyway?

[duncvis]

Enter Key of the Tarsier Elite

wasn't me. maybe renaeden's little joke? just a guess; I remember she called GA 'backspace key of the aspie elite' 

[Calandale]

To me, it appears to reinforce the myth that women are naturally helpless and men naturally predatory...that women can't think for themselves and make their own decisions about what type of person with whom to get involved...and that certain men consciously isolate women in order to consciously manipulate them psychologically and/or emotionally.  It's not always that simple.

I don't think that men do any more conscious manipulating of women than women do of men.  I know just as many men whose lives were damaged by women as vice-versa.  People are people, after all - everyone has their own self-interests to advance. 

AND their own problems. I don't think I've EVER
'swept in' on anyone. Well, I may just have gone
so far as to proposition my PE - she said I did, whilst
so drunk I couldn't remember. I fall for those who
throw their affections at me. And yes, my own are
much stronger than most (as I am so needy), but
they initiate. Even the very young.

[Tristeza]

To me, it appears to reinforce the myth that women are naturally helpless and men naturally predatory...that women can't think for themselves and make their own decisions about what type of person with whom to get involved...and that certain men consciously isolate women in order to consciously manipulate them psychologically and/or emotionally.  It's not always that simple.

I don't think that men do any more conscious manipulating of women than women do of men.  I know just as many men whose lives were damaged by women as vice-versa.  People are people, after all - everyone has their own self-interests to advance. 

AND their own problems. I don't think I've EVER
'swept in' on anyone. Well, I may just have gone
so far as to proposition my PE - she said I did, whilst
so drunk I couldn't remember. I fall for those who
throw their affections at me. And yes, my own are
much stronger than most (as I am so needy), but
they initiate. Even the very young.

Well, maybe that's what co-dependent means.  You give off a needy vibe, and so needy females who need a needy guy to feel needed then throw themselves at you.  I guess everyone's happy for awhile.  What ends up going wrong with this picture??   

[Calandale]

I would think that a lot of homeless people must not have a very good support system.

You might be surprised. I've known a good number
of homeless people, in my time (surprise), there's a
whole community. I actually envy them for the friends
that they tend to have - much more than I usually do.

I also have been part of the support system for someone who was then pretty much isolated from everyone else but the guy, who was abusive.  It was horrible to see.

The only person to whom I was abusive
had closer ties to her family than anyone
else I was with. Also almost always had a
bf, during that time.

[Calandale]

I don't know how much of that sort of manipulation is conscious, but I think that men are more often naturally predatory and that men more often try to isolate their partners from their friends and family than women do.   I wonder if these sorts of relationships would usually become codependent relationships?

I think it goes both ways. And sickens me.
I demanded my freedom, and felt that to
avoid being a hypocrite, I'd have to give the
same. Had many males shocked at the things
I'd 'let' my wife do. Had my friends report shit
to my wife, because they thought that such shouldn't
be happening in THEIR idea of a relationship. If you
can't trust (or at least make an effort) someone, you
don't belong with them.