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Author Topic: propaganda and lies about the NHS  (Read 3069 times)

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Offline Callaway

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2009, 05:24:21 AM »
I think that some people in the US are very afraid of change.  Also I think that health insurance companies and others who have vested interests in preventing health care reform have spent a lot of money to stir up these people.  Perhaps these people who are afraid of change have good health insurance now and they have never been in the situation my family has been in.

We had good insurance, a HMO through my husband's employer, when our daughter was born and it was a very good thing we did, because her medical care cost over $250,000 before she was six weeks old.  Shortly after all this happened, my husband lost his job.  I think that it was largely because the company's health insurance contract was coming up for renewal and it would be cheaper if they eliminated the employees who had made heavy use of their health insurance.  About the same time, they also got rid of an employee who had a heart attack.  I think that he may have been still in the hospital.

When my husband lost the job that had supplied us with health insurance, we were able to pay the COBRA for 18 months, which means that we were able to keep the health insurance policy by paying the company's share of insurance costs in addition to our share plus a small added administrative fee.  Then we had to figure out how to insure our daughter with her pre-existing health conditions and we found it almost impossible.   My husband quickly got another job, but its insurance didn't cover us at the time.  In the end, we were able to pay an exorbitant price for something called 'continuation coverage' which was the most expensive and worst insurance we had ever had in our lives, but at least they had to cover our daughter's pre-existing conditions.  Finally, my husband's company changed their insurance carrier to one that covered us, so we have regular insurance now.

IMO, here's the bad thing about the NHS:  If they want to contain costs, then they have to ration care.  So I think there is a little germ of truth to what they say about adding a year to Stephen Hawking's life possibly being considered less worthwhile to the NHS than adding a year to a healthy person's life.  To take this quality of life into account, the NHS uses something called a QALY or Quality-Adjusted Life Year.  Everyone's quality of life is rated, with a perfectly healthy person getting a 1.0 and a dead person getting a 0.0.  For example, I read that if you have "some problems with performing usual activities, some pain or discomfort," you get a rating of 0.76.  Right now, I have some pain from a sprained right ankle and this has been limiting my mobility a bit, so I think I would probably get a QALY of 0.76, which means that to the NHS, adding a year to my life would be worth about three-fourths as much as adding a year to the life of a perfectly healthy person.  I have no idea what Stephen Hawking's QALY is, but it is arguably less than 1.0.

Medical treatments are assessed by their cost per QALY, so if chemotherapy that cost $100,000 would extend the life of a hypothetical cancer patient by five years, and if the NHS thinks those five years would be crappy ones and gives that patient a QALY of 0.20, then that treatment doesn't cost $20,000 per year, it costs $100,000 per QALY.  Right now, the British health care system generally doesn't cover treatments that cost more than about $50,000 per QALY, so that particular cancer patient would not get his $100,000 chemotherapy.

I think that what a lot of Americans aren't taking into account is that we also ration care in the US, but we use a different metric.  If a person is uninsured and can't afford to pay for an expensive treatment themselves and they aren't destitute enough to be covered by Medicaid, then they don't get the treatment.  Also, quite often, some insurance company refuses to pay for a particular drug or procedure because of something in the fine print in their policy.  Maybe people could see this issue as one over which they have more control because for one thing they often have some lmited amount of control over which insurance company they select.  Also, if it's just an insurance company who refuses to cover a certain treatment, then the issue could be fought in a court if necessary, and the resulting bad press may cause the insurance company to relent and pay for the treatment.  However, if we have just the government as a single payer, then there is much less room for appeal if they refuses to cover a treatment.

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2009, 05:50:27 AM »
One thing which has been missed off - anyone in the UK can buy private health insurance and over 10% of the population do so. The irony is that the NHS has to spend money very often clearing up mistakes in private hospitals.

So in short in the UK we have a brilliant level of basic healthcare and for the few snobs which are not satisfied, there is private healthcare - which thanks to the NHS, in order to compete the prices are usually reasonable.

Offline matthe

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2009, 06:00:57 AM »

its obvious, to me, that it's just afraid of that guy that makes more sense.
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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2009, 06:11:13 AM »
One thing which has been missed off - anyone in the UK can buy private health insurance and over 10% of the population do so. The irony is that the NHS has to spend money very often clearing up mistakes in private hospitals.

So in short in the UK we have a brilliant level of basic healthcare and for the few snobs which are not satisfied, there is private healthcare - which thanks to the NHS, in order to compete the prices are usually reasonable.

We have the same system in Sweden.

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2009, 06:55:57 AM »
One thing which has been missed off - anyone in the UK can buy private health insurance and over 10% of the population do so. The irony is that the NHS has to spend money very often clearing up mistakes in private hospitals.

So in short in the UK we have a brilliant level of basic healthcare and for the few snobs which are not satisfied, there is private healthcare - which thanks to the NHS, in order to compete the prices are usually reasonable.

We have the same system in Sweden.

More or less. Our basic healthcare is not free but it is inexpensive.
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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2009, 10:59:03 AM »
One thing which has been missed off - anyone in the UK can buy private health insurance and over 10% of the population do so. The irony is that the NHS has to spend money very often clearing up mistakes in private hospitals.

So in short in the UK we have a brilliant level of basic healthcare and for the few snobs which are not satisfied, there is private healthcare - which thanks to the NHS, in order to compete the prices are usually reasonable.

I don't think private healthcare is all that bad.  It's certainly more efficient and less time-consuming.  I tried private psychotherapy for a while before our insurance ran out (the guy charged 400 pounds for an hour  :zombiefuck:) and I have to say, I quite liked it.  We were desperate and the NHS was taking fucking ages.  One time when I was younger, it took the NHS 7 months to find me a psychotherapist.  I would definitely recommend that aspect of private healthcare.  They get things done  :thumbup:

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #66 on: August 15, 2009, 11:23:00 AM »
One thing which has been missed off - anyone in the UK can buy private health insurance and over 10% of the population do so. The irony is that the NHS has to spend money very often clearing up mistakes in private hospitals.

So in short in the UK we have a brilliant level of basic healthcare and for the few snobs which are not satisfied, there is private healthcare - which thanks to the NHS, in order to compete the prices are usually reasonable.

I don't think private healthcare is all that bad.  It's certainly more efficient and less time-consuming.  I tried private psychotherapy for a while before our insurance ran out (the guy charged 400 pounds for an hour  :zombiefuck:) and I have to say, I quite liked it.  We were desperate and the NHS was taking fucking ages.  One time when I was younger, it took the NHS 7 months to find me a psychotherapist.  I would definitely recommend that aspect of private healthcare.  They get things done  :thumbup:
Private healthcare isnt a bad thing (unlike private education) because you are not massively disadvatanged in most cases for not having it. I am more curious as to how a psychotherapist managed to give you £400/hour benefit.

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2009, 11:23:37 AM »
Quote
(the guy charged 400 pounds for an hour  ZOMBIE!!!)

Fuck I pay a ten dollar copay the insurance pays another 65

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Offline Phlexor

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #68 on: August 15, 2009, 12:19:42 PM »
One thing which has been missed off - anyone in the UK can buy private health insurance and over 10% of the population do so. The irony is that the NHS has to spend money very often clearing up mistakes in private hospitals.

So in short in the UK we have a brilliant level of basic healthcare and for the few snobs which are not satisfied, there is private healthcare - which thanks to the NHS, in order to compete the prices are usually reasonable.

I don't think private healthcare is all that bad.  It's certainly more efficient and less time-consuming.  I tried private psychotherapy for a while before our insurance ran out (the guy charged 400 pounds for an hour  :zombiefuck:) and I have to say, I quite liked it.  We were desperate and the NHS was taking fucking ages.  One time when I was younger, it took the NHS 7 months to find me a psychotherapist.  I would definitely recommend that aspect of private healthcare.  They get things done  :thumbup:

I've found that you generally get what you pay for. That's why when I went to get DX'ed, I paid for it out of my own pocket and luckily they let me pay it off with a payment plan.

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #69 on: August 15, 2009, 12:20:55 PM »
One thing which has been missed off - anyone in the UK can buy private health insurance and over 10% of the population do so. The irony is that the NHS has to spend money very often clearing up mistakes in private hospitals.

So in short in the UK we have a brilliant level of basic healthcare and for the few snobs which are not satisfied, there is private healthcare - which thanks to the NHS, in order to compete the prices are usually reasonable.

I don't think private healthcare is all that bad.  It's certainly more efficient and less time-consuming.  I tried private psychotherapy for a while before our insurance ran out (the guy charged 400 pounds for an hour  :zombiefuck:) and I have to say, I quite liked it.  We were desperate and the NHS was taking fucking ages.  One time when I was younger, it took the NHS 7 months to find me a psychotherapist.  I would definitely recommend that aspect of private healthcare.  They get things done  :thumbup:

I've found that you generally get what you pay for. That's why when I went to get DX'ed, I paid for it out of my own pocket and luckily they let me pay it off with a payment plan.
Did you get your money back eventually with disability payments and the like. My AS is worth nearly £2000 a year these days...

Offline Adam

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #70 on: August 15, 2009, 12:26:51 PM »
going private is sometimes the only option with psych stuff. because i had just turned 18, i couldn't see an autism specialist on the NHS here. so i had to go private in sheffield. still had to wait from september till january, but at least i got there

social services have been shit for me. if i was violent, i'd have got help. but we had to get the MP involved for them to do anything for me as i am. too late though really, i got through it myself.

when it comes to physical stuff though, there's no way in hell i'd want them to get rid of the NHS. obviously it has it's faults, but it's better than none at all

and yeah, if people don't like it, they can go private

Offline Phlexor

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #71 on: August 15, 2009, 12:31:59 PM »
One thing which has been missed off - anyone in the UK can buy private health insurance and over 10% of the population do so. The irony is that the NHS has to spend money very often clearing up mistakes in private hospitals.

So in short in the UK we have a brilliant level of basic healthcare and for the few snobs which are not satisfied, there is private healthcare - which thanks to the NHS, in order to compete the prices are usually reasonable.

I don't think private healthcare is all that bad.  It's certainly more efficient and less time-consuming.  I tried private psychotherapy for a while before our insurance ran out (the guy charged 400 pounds for an hour  :zombiefuck:) and I have to say, I quite liked it.  We were desperate and the NHS was taking fucking ages.  One time when I was younger, it took the NHS 7 months to find me a psychotherapist.  I would definitely recommend that aspect of private healthcare.  They get things done  :thumbup:

I've found that you generally get what you pay for. That's why when I went to get DX'ed, I paid for it out of my own pocket and luckily they let me pay it off with a payment plan.
Did you get your money back eventually with disability payments and the like. My AS is worth nearly £2000 a year these days...

Never though of it that way, but yeah, I guess so. It's a bit more than unemployment benefits, plus I don't have to either screw around with looking for work or getting doctors certificates all the time.

Offline Phlexor

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #72 on: August 15, 2009, 12:33:56 PM »
going private is sometimes the only option with psych stuff. because i had just turned 18, i couldn't see an autism specialist on the NHS here. so i had to go private in sheffield. still had to wait from september till january, but at least i got there

social services have been shit for me. if i was violent, i'd have got help. but we had to get the MP involved for them to do anything for me as i am. too late though really, i got through it myself.

when it comes to physical stuff though, there's no way in hell i'd want them to get rid of the NHS. obviously it has it's faults, but it's better than none at all

and yeah, if people don't like it, they can go private

You're right, public shrinks and stuff are really shit. If you are any good at that kind of thing, you aren't going to be working for peanuts, you are going to be private and charge a bit more.

GP's on the other hand, don't really have a tough job of things so you can pretty much go to anybody.

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #73 on: August 15, 2009, 01:16:25 PM »
One thing which has been missed off - anyone in the UK can buy private health insurance and over 10% of the population do so. The irony is that the NHS has to spend money very often clearing up mistakes in private hospitals.

So in short in the UK we have a brilliant level of basic healthcare and for the few snobs which are not satisfied, there is private healthcare - which thanks to the NHS, in order to compete the prices are usually reasonable.

I don't think private healthcare is all that bad.  It's certainly more efficient and less time-consuming.  I tried private psychotherapy for a while before our insurance ran out (the guy charged 400 pounds for an hour  :zombiefuck:) and I have to say, I quite liked it.  We were desperate and the NHS was taking fucking ages.  One time when I was younger, it took the NHS 7 months to find me a psychotherapist.  I would definitely recommend that aspect of private healthcare.  They get things done  :thumbup:
Private healthcare isnt a bad thing (unlike private education) because you are not massively disadvatanged in most cases for not having it. I am more curious as to how a psychotherapist managed to give you £400/hour benefit.

Well he did nearly manage to give me my BPD dx.  Unfortunately the money ran out too soon so I only managed 3-4 sessions with him.  He was obviously full of bs at times (like when he was apparently fascinated by what music I listen to) but then all psychotherapists are to a certain degree.  The one I have now is fucking stupid  ::)

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Re: propaganda and lies about the NHS
« Reply #74 on: August 15, 2009, 02:03:25 PM »
One thing which has been missed off - anyone in the UK can buy private health insurance and over 10% of the population do so. The irony is that the NHS has to spend money very often clearing up mistakes in private hospitals.

So in short in the UK we have a brilliant level of basic healthcare and for the few snobs which are not satisfied, there is private healthcare - which thanks to the NHS, in order to compete the prices are usually reasonable.

I don't think private healthcare is all that bad.  It's certainly more efficient and less time-consuming.  I tried private psychotherapy for a while before our insurance ran out (the guy charged 400 pounds for an hour  :zombiefuck:) and I have to say, I quite liked it.  We were desperate and the NHS was taking fucking ages.  One time when I was younger, it took the NHS 7 months to find me a psychotherapist.  I would definitely recommend that aspect of private healthcare.  They get things done  :thumbup:
Private healthcare isnt a bad thing (unlike private education) because you are not massively disadvatanged in most cases for not having it. I am more curious as to how a psychotherapist managed to give you £400/hour benefit.

Well he did nearly manage to give me my BPD dx.  Unfortunately the money ran out too soon so I only managed 3-4 sessions with him.  He was obviously full of bs at times (like when he was apparently fascinated by what music I listen to) but then all psychotherapists are to a certain degree.  The one I have now is fucking stupid  ::)
Still, £1600 for a bipolar diagnosis seems a bit ridiculous - I reckon it could be done a lot more cheaply. I must be doing the wrong degree if you can earn £400 an hour as a shrink, though I could go into banking I guess (well if I could stand the people there anyway).

I visited a counsellor once (just to prove a point with my doctor) and it was such a waste of time - no idea how it helps people.