The "Retro-Sexual" Male Code - We Are Men That "Deal With It"...

[The Member Formerly Known As Sophist]

The reason women are so good at what they do is because of their oranisational skills. They cook, clean, look after kids etc so much better than men because they are hard-wired to do these sort of things. Men are better at the physical things that women have trouble with, like hard physical sports, hunting, construction work, and general heavy labour. The big problem is, women have been underrated and undervalued by men for their homecare and what they do best, but it's the wankers like Greer and her ilk that are to blame for that. Equality is one thing, but trying to emasculate the other sex just to propagate some bullshit notion of superiority is something else entirely. Greer should have been fucked and burned.

Those are generalizations. --Not that generalizations need be wholly untrue, but it's definitely not like that for every woman or every man. The gender of the brain is a full continuum; sexual differentiation of the brain is based upon the levels of blood androgens which, after crossing the blood-brain barrier, aromatise into estrogen (largely estradiol). It's the estrogens which stimulate neurons which have various estrogen receptors (e.g., ER-alpha and ER-beta), keeping these cells from going through apoptosis. In males, it is the continued activation of these neurons via estrogen during specific times of foetal and early postnatal development that causes this "wiring" you speak of. In females, due to lower levels of androgens (and hence estrogens in the central nervous system) these neurons' growth is inhibited, sometimes to the point of cellular death depending on the local area.

The thing is, the levels of androgens present aren't an all-or-nothing-at-all variable: it's a true gradient. Hence there are men who indeed have brains which process in more the female-typical way, and some women's brains which do the opposite. All because of how much androgen was present in utero. And androgens are able to cross the placental barrier, so if the mother has higher androgen levels in her blood (which can frequently occur with conditions like Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome which is currently diagnosed in about 5-10% of the female population and is the biggest reason for female infertility) the baby will also receive higher levels of androgens and develop more male-typical cognition. Unsurprisingly, butch lesbians have been reported to have been exposed to higher levels of androgens in utero, and women with Gender Identity Disorder, according to the DSM, express higher rates of Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome.

And it's not just early development that causes the sexual differentiation of the brain, but then the switch where, starting puberty, females have higher levels of estrogens than males. This effects neural plasticity (estrogens promote growth, in part due to their close ties with insulin-like growth factor-1, a hormone integral to cellular growth) and estrogen can frequently have an excitatory effect on select neurons, thereby increasing neural activity.

Anyways, sorry for going on, this is currently what my research is getting into. But the point is: I don't necessarily disagree with you that there are general underlying neurological/cognitive differences between males and females, but that it is strictly a generalization and there are minorities of both males and females who do not follow those patterns. It's a typical bell curve, with most men and women falling in the average range, but a bell curve in which the minority tails are also very well represented.

Long story short, you're generalizing too much.

Thanks for the info. But most of society does tend to generalise, and on those generalisations opinions are formed.

You're not saying you're average are you??? 

[The_Chosen_One]

The reason women are so good at what they do is because of their oranisational skills. They cook, clean, look after kids etc so much better than men because they are hard-wired to do these sort of things. Men are better at the physical things that women have trouble with, like hard physical sports, hunting, construction work, and general heavy labour. The big problem is, women have been underrated and undervalued by men for their homecare and what they do best, but it's the wankers like Greer and her ilk that are to blame for that. Equality is one thing, but trying to emasculate the other sex just to propagate some bullshit notion of superiority is something else entirely. Greer should have been fucked and burned.

Those are generalizations. --Not that generalizations need be wholly untrue, but it's definitely not like that for every woman or every man. The gender of the brain is a full continuum; sexual differentiation of the brain is based upon the levels of blood androgens which, after crossing the blood-brain barrier, aromatise into estrogen (largely estradiol). It's the estrogens which stimulate neurons which have various estrogen receptors (e.g., ER-alpha and ER-beta), keeping these cells from going through apoptosis. In males, it is the continued activation of these neurons via estrogen during specific times of foetal and early postnatal development that causes this "wiring" you speak of. In females, due to lower levels of androgens (and hence estrogens in the central nervous system) these neurons' growth is inhibited, sometimes to the point of cellular death depending on the local area.

The thing is, the levels of androgens present aren't an all-or-nothing-at-all variable: it's a true gradient. Hence there are men who indeed have brains which process in more the female-typical way, and some women's brains which do the opposite. All because of how much androgen was present in utero. And androgens are able to cross the placental barrier, so if the mother has higher androgen levels in her blood (which can frequently occur with conditions like Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome which is currently diagnosed in about 5-10% of the female population and is the biggest reason for female infertility) the baby will also receive higher levels of androgens and develop more male-typical cognition. Unsurprisingly, butch lesbians have been reported to have been exposed to higher levels of androgens in utero, and women with Gender Identity Disorder, according to the DSM, express higher rates of Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome.

And it's not just early development that causes the sexual differentiation of the brain, but then the switch where, starting puberty, females have higher levels of estrogens than males. This effects neural plasticity (estrogens promote growth, in part due to their close ties with insulin-like growth factor-1, a hormone integral to cellular growth) and estrogen can frequently have an excitatory effect on select neurons, thereby increasing neural activity.

Anyways, sorry for going on, this is currently what my research is getting into. But the point is: I don't necessarily disagree with you that there are general underlying neurological/cognitive differences between males and females, but that it is strictly a generalization and there are minorities of both males and females who do not follow those patterns. It's a typical bell curve, with most men and women falling in the average range, but a bell curve in which the minority tails are also very well represented.

Long story short, you're generalizing too much.

Thanks for the info. But most of society does tend to generalise, and on those generalisations opinions are formed.

You're not saying you're average are you??? 

Fuck, I have no idea what 'average' is. :lol:

[Parts]

I'm not average I'm a Freak

[SleepyDragon]

There's little doubt that men and women can, and do, experience the world in very different ways. And Sophist's point about gender being more of a continuum than a binary "either-or" distinction is well taken. This one puzzles me, however:

A Retrosexual knows how to say the Pledge properly, and with the correct emphasis and pronunciation. He also knows the words to the Star Spangled Banner.

My husband, an archetypal Ocker male if ever there was one, cannot do either of these things. I, a humble female and not even American, could probably make a passable attempt. 

[The Member Formerly Known As Sophist]

A real man, however, cannot reach all the high notes to A Star Spangled Banner.

Nor can most women for that matter.  :lol:

[Frolic_Fun]

I am neither a "real man" or one of those femine poofters.

I am, in essence, an eejit.

[The_Chosen_One]

I am neither a "real man" or one of those femine poofters.

I am, in essence, an eejit.

Well, I'll have to give him that; when the man's right he's right....

[The Member Formerly Known As Sophist]

That sounds really interesting, Sophist.

Is there any correlation with the brain gender of the fetus and estrogen levels in the mother's blood during pregnancy?

Completely missed this, Callaway, sorry.

I've not read anything focusing on estrogen levels in pregnant females, though it has been something I myself have wondered about. There may be the possibility of higher estrogen levels overall, or there could be typical estrogen levels but a decrease in the levels of progesterone (which is supposed to be higher during pregnancy) which has been shown to act like an antiestrogen in certain types of cells. It's unknown atm whether progesterone has antiestrogen-like effects on central nervous system tissue. But if it does, and if its levels are lower for some women during pregnancy than is typical, the typical or increased amounts of estrogen could have a greater effect with lesser progesterone opposition. For example, one study reviews steroidal effects on developing tissue:

"...low concentrations of a hormone can stimulate a tissue, while high concentrations can have the opposite effect. We report here that a 50% increase in free-serum estradiol in male mouse fetuses (released by a maternal Silastic estradiol implant) induced a 40% increase in the number of developing prostatic glands during fetal life; subsequently, in adulthood, the number of prostatic androgen receptors per cell was permanently increased by 2-fold, and the prostate was enlarged by 30% (due to hyperplasia) relative to untreated males" (vom Saal et al., 1997, p. 2056)

http://www.pnas.org/content/94/5/2056.abstract

So with a slight increased in estradiol stimulation, receptor numbers for androgens were double in adults as compared to controls. And, like I said, if progesterone acts as an antiestrogen-like cytokine in CNS tissue, then lower levels of progesterone could potentially increase the effects of estrogen without even increasing its actual blood levels.

[Semicolon]

I have been followed to this thread by a snooping Weeble.

["couldbecousin"]

I have been followed to this thread by a snooping Weeble.

 You're a man, so deal with it! 

[Scrapheap]

This is a thread for Manly men, who do manly things.

[Adam]

Like using magic internet blocking powers to hide little gayboys and trannyboys from their sight

[Squidusa]

Like using magic internet blocking powers to hide little gayboys and trannyboys from their sight

[Al Swearegen]

Taken from here.


The Retrosexual Code

OK folks, I have had it. I've taken all I can stand and I can't stand no more. Every time my TV is on, all that can be seen is effeminate men prancing about, redecorating houses and talking about foreign concepts like "style" and "feng shui." Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, transsexual, metrosexual, non-sexual; blue, green, and purple-sexual bogus definitions have taken over the urban and suburban world!

Real men of the world, stand up, scratch your butt, belch, and yell "ENOUGH!" I hereby announce the start of a new offensive in the culture wars, the Retrosexual movement.

The Code:

A Retrosexual, no matter what the women insists, PAYS FOR THE DATE.

A Retrosexual opens doors for a lady. Even for the ones that fit that term only because they are female.

A Retrosexual DEALS with IT, be it a flat tire, break-in into your home, or a natural disaster, you DEAL WITH IT.

A Retrosexual not only eats red meat, he often kills it himself.

A Retrosexual doesn't worry about living to be 90. It's not how long you live, but how well. If you're 90 years old and still smoking cigars and drinking, I salute you.

A Retrosexual does not use more hair or skin products than a woman. Women have several supermarket aisles of stuff. Retrosexuals need an endcap (possibly 2 endcaps if you include shaving goods).

A Retrosexual does not dress in clothes from Hot Topic when he's 30 years old.

A Retrosexual should know how to properly kill stuff (or people) if need be.

This falls under the "Dealing with IT" portion of The Code.

A Retrosexual watches no TV show with "Queer" in the title.

A Retrosexual does not let neighbors screw up rooms in his house on national TV.

A Retrosexual should not give up excessive amounts of manliness for women.

Some is inevitable, but major reinvention of yourself will only lead to you becoming a frou-frou little puss, and in the long run, she ain't worth it.

A Retrosexual is allowed to seek professional help for major mental stress such as drug/alcohol addiction, death of your entire family in a freak tree chipper accident, favorite sports team being moved to a different city, favorite bird dog expiring, etc. You are NOT allowed to see a shrink because Daddy didn't pay you enough attention. Daddy was busy DEALING WITH IT. When you screwed up, he DEALT with you.

A Retrosexual will have at least one outfit in his wardrobe designed to conceal himself from prey.

A Retrosexual knows how to tie a Windsor knot when wearing a tie - and ONLY a Windsor knot.

A Retrosexual should have at least one good wound he can brag about getting.

A Retrosexual knows how to use a basic set of tools. If you can't hammer a nail, or drill a straight hole, practice in secret until you can - or be rightfully ridiculed for the wuss you be.

A Retrosexual knows that owning a gun is not a sign that your are riddled with fear, guns are TOOLS and are often essential to DEAL WITH IT. Plus it's just plain fun to shoot.

Crying. There are very few reason that a Retrosexual may cry, and none of them have to do with TV commercials, movies, or soap operas. Sports teams are sometimes a reason to cry, but the preferred method of release is swearing or throwing the remote control. Some reasons a Retrosexual can cry include (but are not limited to) death of a loved one, death of a pet (fish do NOT count as pets in this case), loss of a major body part.

A Retrosexual man's favorite movie isn't "Maid in Manhattan" (unless that refers to some foxy French maid sitting in a huge tub of brandy or whiskey), or "Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood." Acceptable ones may include any of the Dirty Harry or Nameless Drifter movies (Clint in his better days), Rambo I or II, the Dirty Dozen, The Godfather trilogy, Scarface, The Road Warrior, The Die Hard series, Caddyshack, Rocky I, II, or III, Full Metal Jacket, any James Bond Movie, Raging Bull, Bullitt, any Bruce Lee movie, Apocalypse Now, Goodfellas, Reservoir Dogs, Fight Club, etc.etc.

When a Retrosexual is on a crowded bus and or a commuter train, and a pregnant woman, hell, any woman gets on, that Retrosexual stands up and offers his seat to that woman, then looks around at the other so-called men still in their seats with a disgusted "you punks" look on his face.

A Retrosexual knows how to say the Pledge properly, and with the correct emphasis and pronunciation. He also knows the words to the Star Spangled Banner.

A Retrosexual will have hobbies and habits his wife and mother do not understand, but that are essential to his manliness, in that they offset the acceptable manliness decline he suffers when married/engaged in a serious healthy relationship - i.e., hunting, boxing, shot putting, shooting, cigars, car maintenance.

A Retrosexual knows how to sharpen his own knives and kitchen utensils.

A Retrosexual man can drive in snow (hell, a blizzard) without sliding all over or driving under 20 mph, without anxiety, and without high-centering his ride on a plow berm.

A Retrosexual man can chop down a tree and make it land where he wants.

Wherever it lands is where he damn well wanted it to land.

A Retrosexual will give up his seat on a bus to not only any women but any elderly person or person in military dress (except officers above 2nd Lt)

NOTE: The person in military dress may turn down the offer but the Retrosexual man will ALWAYS make the offer to them and thank them for serving their country.

A Retrosexual man doesn't need a contract -- a handshake is good enough. He will always stand by his word even if circumstances change or the other person deceived him.

A Retrosexual man doesn't immediately look to sue someone when he does something stupid and hurts himself. We understand that sometimes in the process of doing things we get hurt and we just DEAL WITH IT.

Here was me thinking this was going to be another ousting of the ideologies of the traditional man. Nope I just saw me   

[Semicolon]

Taken from here.


The Retrosexual Code

OK folks, I have had it. I've taken all I can stand and I can't stand no more. Every time my TV is on, all that can be seen is effeminate men prancing about, redecorating houses and talking about foreign concepts like "style" and "feng shui." Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, transsexual, metrosexual, non-sexual; blue, green, and purple-sexual bogus definitions have taken over the urban and suburban world!

Real men of the world, stand up, scratch your butt, belch, and yell "ENOUGH!" I hereby announce the start of a new offensive in the culture wars, the Retrosexual movement.

The Code:

A Retrosexual, no matter what the women insists, PAYS FOR THE DATE.

A Retrosexual opens doors for a lady. Even for the ones that fit that term only because they are female.

A Retrosexual DEALS with IT, be it a flat tire, break-in into your home, or a natural disaster, you DEAL WITH IT.

A Retrosexual not only eats red meat, he often kills it himself.

A Retrosexual doesn't worry about living to be 90. It's not how long you live, but how well. If you're 90 years old and still smoking cigars and drinking, I salute you.

A Retrosexual does not use more hair or skin products than a woman. Women have several supermarket aisles of stuff. Retrosexuals need an endcap (possibly 2 endcaps if you include shaving goods).

A Retrosexual does not dress in clothes from Hot Topic when he's 30 years old.

A Retrosexual should know how to properly kill stuff (or people) if need be.

This falls under the "Dealing with IT" portion of The Code.

A Retrosexual watches no TV show with "Queer" in the title.

A Retrosexual does not let neighbors screw up rooms in his house on national TV.

A Retrosexual should not give up excessive amounts of manliness for women.

Some is inevitable, but major reinvention of yourself will only lead to you becoming a frou-frou little puss, and in the long run, she ain't worth it.

A Retrosexual is allowed to seek professional help for major mental stress such as drug/alcohol addiction, death of your entire family in a freak tree chipper accident, favorite sports team being moved to a different city, favorite bird dog expiring, etc. You are NOT allowed to see a shrink because Daddy didn't pay you enough attention. Daddy was busy DEALING WITH IT. When you screwed up, he DEALT with you.

A Retrosexual will have at least one outfit in his wardrobe designed to conceal himself from prey.

A Retrosexual knows how to tie a Windsor knot when wearing a tie - and ONLY a Windsor knot.

A Retrosexual should have at least one good wound he can brag about getting.

A Retrosexual knows how to use a basic set of tools. If you can't hammer a nail, or drill a straight hole, practice in secret until you can - or be rightfully ridiculed for the wuss you be.

A Retrosexual knows that owning a gun is not a sign that your are riddled with fear, guns are TOOLS and are often essential to DEAL WITH IT. Plus it's just plain fun to shoot.

Crying. There are very few reason that a Retrosexual may cry, and none of them have to do with TV commercials, movies, or soap operas. Sports teams are sometimes a reason to cry, but the preferred method of release is swearing or throwing the remote control. Some reasons a Retrosexual can cry include (but are not limited to) death of a loved one, death of a pet (fish do NOT count as pets in this case), loss of a major body part.

A Retrosexual man's favorite movie isn't "Maid in Manhattan" (unless that refers to some foxy French maid sitting in a huge tub of brandy or whiskey), or "Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood." Acceptable ones may include any of the Dirty Harry or Nameless Drifter movies (Clint in his better days), Rambo I or II, the Dirty Dozen, The Godfather trilogy, Scarface, The Road Warrior, The Die Hard series, Caddyshack, Rocky I, II, or III, Full Metal Jacket, any James Bond Movie, Raging Bull, Bullitt, any Bruce Lee movie, Apocalypse Now, Goodfellas, Reservoir Dogs, Fight Club, etc.etc.

When a Retrosexual is on a crowded bus and or a commuter train, and a pregnant woman, hell, any woman gets on, that Retrosexual stands up and offers his seat to that woman, then looks around at the other so-called men still in their seats with a disgusted "you punks" look on his face.

A Retrosexual knows how to say the Pledge properly, and with the correct emphasis and pronunciation. He also knows the words to the Star Spangled Banner.

A Retrosexual will have hobbies and habits his wife and mother do not understand, but that are essential to his manliness, in that they offset the acceptable manliness decline he suffers when married/engaged in a serious healthy relationship - i.e., hunting, boxing, shot putting, shooting, cigars, car maintenance.

A Retrosexual knows how to sharpen his own knives and kitchen utensils.

A Retrosexual man can drive in snow (hell, a blizzard) without sliding all over or driving under 20 mph, without anxiety, and without high-centering his ride on a plow berm.

A Retrosexual man can chop down a tree and make it land where he wants.

Wherever it lands is where he damn well wanted it to land.

A Retrosexual will give up his seat on a bus to not only any women but any elderly person or person in military dress (except officers above 2nd Lt)

NOTE: The person in military dress may turn down the offer but the Retrosexual man will ALWAYS make the offer to them and thank them for serving their country.

A Retrosexual man doesn't need a contract -- a handshake is good enough. He will always stand by his word even if circumstances change or the other person deceived him.

A Retrosexual man doesn't immediately look to sue someone when he does something stupid and hurts himself. We understand that sometimes in the process of doing things we get hurt and we just DEAL WITH IT.

Here was me thinking this was going to be another ousting of the ideologies of the traditional man. Nope I just saw me   

Are kangaroos considered red meat in Australia?