RAPE versus MURDER

[P7PSP]

I think that the reason for so many appeals is that sometimes we convict innocent people.

Except the last minute appeals for Robert Alton Harris were about alledged Fetal Alcohol Syndrome which was easily disprovable in his case and Tookie's final appeals were about how writing a childrens book made what he did okay enough to spare his life. The last hour appeals for those two as well as the appeals for William Bonin ended up being about everything except their guilt, Gary Gilmore and Dodd both freely admitted their guilt prior to execution and had to appear in court to urge Judges to disregard Amicus Curae Briefs by third parties opposed to their executions just because they oppose all executions.

[Adam]

If it's obvious that they're guilty (dna, cctv etc) then I can't think how it could possibly be more expensive. I mean I understand that it can be for the reasons PPK stated, but if it was done properly, who could it be? If they're definitely guilty, there's no need for an appeal, just shoot the bastard or strap them in and inject them. That would definitely cost a lot less than  another 50/60 years worth of looking after them

[Blasted]

They are still human beings though.  Obviously they are fucked in the head otherwise they wouldn't commit those crimes but must we stoop down to their level?

[RageBeoulve]

They are still human beings though.  Obviously they are fucked in the head otherwise they wouldn't commit those crimes but must we stoop down to their level?

The fact is that they are evil, and will bring nothng to society. Think of it like a ban if you will.

[Blasted]

They are still human beings though.  Obviously they are fucked in the head otherwise they wouldn't commit those crimes but must we stoop down to their level?

The fact is that they are evil, and will bring nothng to society. Think of it like a ban if you will.

I don't think there is such a thing as an evil person.  Isolate them from society or make them do labour.  Also, a ban doesn't kill a person it's just blocks them from a forum/chatroom the internet so that's a pretty shite allegory.

[Adam]

I don't see it as stooping down to their level, as their crimes are against innocent people. They give up any rights they had when they chose to rape/abuse/murder

If it was cheap and easy to let them live, then sure. But I don't see why tax payers' money should be spent on child abusers and serial killers

[Blasted]

It is stooping down to their level because at least they have the excuse of being fucked while we are doing the same to them with the clear knowledge of what's right and wrong.  Also, think of the fact that each criminal has different circumstances leading up to their crime(s).  Not all of them just choose to do away with someone or rape their brains out out of a mere fancy although I don't deny there are people like that.

Tax-payers money will always be wasted, prisons or no prisons.  Just look at the latest expenses scandal.

[Adam]

I don't think all rapists/murderers deserve the death sentence.

But what about someone who repeatedly abused, raped and then murdered children, because they were a paedophile and then needed to get rid of the evidence, so just killed them.

If we can definitely prove they're guilty, I would have no problem with them being killed

[Blasted]

I'd have them rot in the worst prison for the rest of their life, killing them would be doing them a favour really.  They would probably end up being killed by other prisoners anyway.

[P7PSP]

I don't see it as stooping down to their level, as their crimes are against innocent people. They give up any rights they had when they chose to rape/abuse/murder

If it was cheap and easy to let them live, then sure. But I don't see why tax payers' money should be spent on child abusers and serial killers

Gus the reason I agree with Soph about this is because I am willing to go out on a limb and state that I believe there is a huge qualitive difference between a scumbag like Richard Allen Davis and Polly Klaas the 12 year old girl that he kidnapped, raped and murdered. I do not see any moral equivalence between his actions of doing the sadistic shit he did to cop a nut at the cost of her life and desiring to see that evil POS die to pay for what he did to her. These people are not fixable, Edmund Kemper murdered his grandparents at 15 years old and was released at 21 and committed 8 more murders including his own mother who he beheaded. Arthur Shawcross murdered two children and got a 25 year sentence in a plea bargain and was released after serving only 16 years because he was deemed all better, he then committed another string of murders. John Douglas and Park Dietz both used to work in the FBIs profiling unit and subscribe to the theory that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I agree with that assessment and don't see any reason to gamble with the safety of the public at large to test yet another way to rehabilitate proven predators. And life in prison all too often does not mean life in prison.

[Blasted]

Doesn't this show though that their urge to kill is uncontrollable and something they can't really help?  I agree, life doesn't always mean life nowadays so perhaps that is what we should be trying to change as opposed to self-righteously sticking a bullet into a criminal's head and claiming the job as done.

[Adam]

I can't see how they can ever decide to release someone who's previously murdered or abused children. How can you take that kind of risk with children? As it stands, you can't trust the idiots not to release these kinds of people for "good behaviour" or some other shite like that. So I would only feel better about scum like that once they are rotting.

[Adam]

Doesn't this show though that their urge to kill is uncontrollable and something they can't really help?  I agree, life doesn't always mean life nowadays so perhaps that is what we should be trying to change as opposed to self-righteously sticking a bullet into a criminal's head and claiming the job as done.

Yeah it pisses me off when some shithole gets a "life" sentence  of a few years or something. Fuck that. Some people you just CANNOT risk unleashing on society again.

I still don't see why we should bother paying for their existence though, when we could just get rid of them.

[Blasted]

Doesn't this show though that their urge to kill is uncontrollable and something they can't really help?  I agree, life doesn't always mean life nowadays so perhaps that is what we should be trying to change as opposed to self-righteously sticking a bullet into a criminal's head and claiming the job as done.

Yeah it pisses me off when some shithole gets a "life" sentence  of a few years or something. Fuck that. Some people you just CANNOT risk unleashing on society again.

I still don't see why we should bother paying for their existence though, when we could just get rid of them.

Who are we to judge how much someone's existance is worth?   It is not up to people to decide whether somebody deserves to live or not.

[P7PSP]

Doesn't this show though that their urge to kill is uncontrollable and something they can't really help?  I agree, life doesn't always mean life nowadays so perhaps that is what we should be trying to change as opposed to self-righteously sticking a bullet into a criminal's head and claiming the job as done.

Actually the sob sisters in California are working on both ends of this discussion. The Death Penalty is wrong according to National Lawyers Guild, ACLU etc, and they take serious issue with the Citizens of California voting in the Three Strikes Initiative to prevent their misunderstood clients from having yet another crack at behaving nice.

Who are we to judge how much someone's existance is worth?   It is not up to people to decide whether somebody deserves to live or not.

Under that reasoning who are we to deprive psychopaths of their liberty just because we don't like how they get their kicks?