$700,000,000,000.00

[Callaway]

Well considering that the toxic debt is actually trillions of dollars in value some even saying it's up to 8 trillion, 700 billion will have minimal impact of only delaying the inevitable, in fact potentially worsening it long-term.

If the American people were buy off ALL the toxic debt (if the maximum is 8 trillion for example), it would cost at least up to $21,000 max per taxpayer over the time period it's paid. This bailout is setting a dangerous moral precedent to banks that they can get away with it at taxpayers expense and real question is that, how much of the toxic debt will the government need to buy out before the system stabilizes (if at all)? If anything the bailout would allow more debt to accumulate leading to an even larger collapse in the future.

I think that these all are very good points.  My father-in-law is an economist and he says the same thing, that a 700 biillion dollar bailout now will not be enough and will only delay the inevitable recession / depression and make it even worse in the long run.

The Senate approved the bailout tonight, so now I guess we can see what Congress does with it tomorrow.

[jman]

The Senate approved the bailout tonight

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[odeon]

Evil and greed transcend all political boundaries 

QFT

[Trigger 11]

The Senate approved the bailout tonight

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[Christopher McCandless]

The Senate approved the bailout tonight

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Time for the idiots in the lower house to get a wriggle on.

[Johnny]

Unfortunately for the Democrats, what Johnny posted is the truth.    Obama's economic advisor Franklin Raines (who is a former CEO of Fannie Mae lol)  and Barney Frank headed up the resistance against Republicans that wanted to investigate the books of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.   That really is bad news and it is the truth.    I like it how Democrats are trying to blame this on Bush and the Republicans, when they were the party that wanted to reform this situation years before the crisis we are facing now.   I actually read about that stuff a few days ago, and Hannity was bitching about it on the radio today.   I actually remember hearing about this in 2004 and it didn't even seem to be important back then.  I find it odd that two of Obama's economic advisors are both former CEOs of Fannie Mae.

http://overthehilloracles.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/the-obama-fannie-freddie-connection/

http://people.boston.com/forums/news/politics/general/?p=discussiondetails&activityid=8731153219468243318

Sorry, which party in large numbers voted against all this? Not the Democrats. If Clinton was still in charge as opposed Bush, the US would have built up a budget surplus of $5.7tn.

As for economic advisors, take a look at McCain. Not only does he not know at all what he is talking about when it comes to the ecomony (by his own confession, no less), he has hired the people responsible for this mess. Up until recently, his chief ecomonic advisor was a man named Phil Gramm. Look him up and see for yourself.

Looking through the books of Fannnie Mae and Freddie Mac would have made no difference, the mess would have happened anyway, just sooner.

it's hysterical to see post like yours, is it good drugs or just plain blindness to the truth or are you just a total sucker or just completely unable to understand what is happening on planet earth ?

No, its just you watch way too much Fox News and swallow all its bullshit.

I don't watch it, so much for your simpleton answer.

Not convinced.

considering your profile says you are 19 in my opinion you have a lot to learn and if Obama gets in will get one hell of a lesson, not knowing much isn't as bad as tuning out anything you don't want to hear

you can stomp your feet and throw a temper tantrum all you want, it won't change the fact the idiot baby boomers destroyed the country for you, you can blame it on some Bush guy but it won't change the outcome and you can ignore the real reasons for the mess and believe some messiah is going to make it go away

Firstly, the experience argument has been done to death. Reagan was the only one any good at using it.

Secondly, go and read Obama's book. He makes some very compelling arguments. The fact he has to slightly mislead the masses is meaningless, if the masses had brains he would not have to mislead them.

The guy wrote a book to sell by telling people what they want to hear, I'm sure AnnCoulter makes compelling arguements also for somebody willing to lap up her drivil.

If you believe at 19 you have the knowledge to really know if his arguements will pass the sniff test you are really full of yourself.

[Christopher McCandless]

Unfortunately for the Democrats, what Johnny posted is the truth.    Obama's economic advisor Franklin Raines (who is a former CEO of Fannie Mae lol)  and Barney Frank headed up the resistance against Republicans that wanted to investigate the books of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.   That really is bad news and it is the truth.    I like it how Democrats are trying to blame this on Bush and the Republicans, when they were the party that wanted to reform this situation years before the crisis we are facing now.   I actually read about that stuff a few days ago, and Hannity was bitching about it on the radio today.   I actually remember hearing about this in 2004 and it didn't even seem to be important back then.  I find it odd that two of Obama's economic advisors are both former CEOs of Fannie Mae.

http://overthehilloracles.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/the-obama-fannie-freddie-connection/

http://people.boston.com/forums/news/politics/general/?p=discussiondetails&activityid=8731153219468243318

Sorry, which party in large numbers voted against all this? Not the Democrats. If Clinton was still in charge as opposed Bush, the US would have built up a budget surplus of $5.7tn.

As for economic advisors, take a look at McCain. Not only does he not know at all what he is talking about when it comes to the ecomony (by his own confession, no less), he has hired the people responsible for this mess. Up until recently, his chief ecomonic advisor was a man named Phil Gramm. Look him up and see for yourself.

Looking through the books of Fannnie Mae and Freddie Mac would have made no difference, the mess would have happened anyway, just sooner.

it's hysterical to see post like yours, is it good drugs or just plain blindness to the truth or are you just a total sucker or just completely unable to understand what is happening on planet earth ?

No, its just you watch way too much Fox News and swallow all its bullshit.

I don't watch it, so much for your simpleton answer.

Not convinced.

considering your profile says you are 19 in my opinion you have a lot to learn and if Obama gets in will get one hell of a lesson, not knowing much isn't as bad as tuning out anything you don't want to hear

you can stomp your feet and throw a temper tantrum all you want, it won't change the fact the idiot baby boomers destroyed the country for you, you can blame it on some Bush guy but it won't change the outcome and you can ignore the real reasons for the mess and believe some messiah is going to make it go away

Firstly, the experience argument has been done to death. Reagan was the only one any good at using it.

Secondly, go and read Obama's book. He makes some very compelling arguments. The fact he has to slightly mislead the masses is meaningless, if the masses had brains he would not have to mislead them.

The guy wrote a book to sell by telling people what they want to hear, I'm sure AnnCoulter makes compelling arguements also for somebody willing to lap up her drivil.

If you believe at 19 you have the knowledge to really know if his arguements will pass the sniff test you are really full of yourself.

Have you read his book? Lets guess, the answer to that one is no.

His arguments make perfectly good sense, in fact to an outsider he is often pointing out the bleeding obvious. You are just jealous because McCain is not bright enough to write a book that actually is an enjoyable read that connects with people.

[odeon]

/shrugs

I'd never buy one of those before-the-election books. There's no telling what their spin doctors can do.

[Christopher McCandless]

/shrugs

I'd never buy one of those before-the-election books. There's no telling what their spin doctors can do.

Obama actually wrote his first book back in the early 90's. The second was written when he was a rank political outsider. Certainly they are a lot less spun than McCain's Vietnam tripe.

[odeon]

/shrugs

I'd never buy one of those before-the-election books. There's no telling what their spin doctors can do.

Obama actually wrote his first book back in the early 90's. The second was written when he was a rank political outsider. Certainly they are a lot less spun than McCain's Vietnam tripe.

Fair enough--I had no idea when he wrote his books.

[Johnny]

Have you read his book? Lets guess, the answer to that one is no.

His arguments make perfectly good sense, in fact to an outsider he is often pointing out the bleeding obvious. You are just jealous because McCain is not bright enough to write a book that actually is an enjoyable read that connects with people.

Hitler also made perfect sense to people.

The old read the book thing to try and weasel out of being able to support your veiws is a lame cop out

Why would i be jealous ? I could really give a shit which asshole gets elected because it won't have any affect on my life at my age because I'm all set and will do just fine either way.
When i was your age the country elected a jackass named Carter and I paid for it for decades, you are the one who will pay for decades if the bigger asshole of the two gets elected. You are already on the hook for trillions in liberal nonsense now an I'll gladly help put you deeper in debt if Obama gets into office by working the system to stuff my own pockets.

If you want to pay for my health insurance, hey have at it. If you want to go vote for somebody who talks about creating more government jobs, have at it I'll take one and milk it for all it's worth.

remember only the little people pay taxes, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Money makes money and if you want to shrink the pie, have at it you will be the ones who ends up with less.

[Christopher McCandless]

Have you read his book? Lets guess, the answer to that one is no.

His arguments make perfectly good sense, in fact to an outsider he is often pointing out the bleeding obvious. You are just jealous because McCain is not bright enough to write a book that actually is an enjoyable read that connects with people.

Hitler also made perfect sense to people.

Hitler made sense to gullible morons. In the same way that the religious right does.

The old read the book thing to try and weasel out of being able to support your veiws is a lame cop out

I will take that for a no. In which case, how can you comment on a book without it being something you have read first hand? Instead you have consumed the usual bullshit.

Why would i be jealous ? I could really give a shit which asshole gets elected because it won't have any affect on my life at my age because I'm all set and will do just fine either way.
When i was your age the country elected a jackass named Carter and I paid for it for decades, you are the one who will pay for decades if the bigger asshole of the two gets elected. You are already on the hook for trillions in liberal nonsense now an I'll gladly help put you deeper in debt if Obama gets into office by working the system to stuff my own pockets.

Unless you are a hermit, geopolitics will always effect you, directly or indirectly.

As for debt, look how much Bush has put the US in over his 8 years. Its ironic that the conservatives over there are the ones who overspend, not the Democrats. As I said earlier, America would be $5.7tn better off if they had stuck to Clinton's plans.

If you want to pay for my health insurance, hey have at it. If you want to go vote for somebody who talks about creating more government jobs, have at it I'll take one and milk it for all it's worth.

Thankfully I live in a country where those people were in office. Its a shame that we might end up electing Thatcher Mk II because someone gave morons the right to vote. People never realise that the average citizens always get stung by tax cuts, but some people cannot resist the shiny ££££

remember only the little people pay taxes, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Money makes money and if you want to shrink the pie, have at it you will be the ones who ends up with less.

In Europe the average citizen is better off. Guess which model we follow.

[Johnny]

where did i comment on the contents of the book ? I've never saw it so couldn't comment on it besides saying he can tell people what they want to hear same as ann coulter can.

polictics isn't likely to affect me because either way I'll have food, clothing & shelter same as today.

clinton $5.7 trillion it's just an unproven theory, reality was the economy was crashing before he left office and it's just theory 9-11 might not have happened. reality is Bush had nothing to do with the DOT.CON crash or world oil prices taking off. Back in the 90's I was fueling my truck below .80 cents a gallon and thought it ain't going to last long, the import crises america is suffering from has been in the making for decades.

in europe they protect their economies threw a VAT tax, stupid americans including comrade clinton give away the country in free trade deals and the USA has a giant dysfunctional population ,we aren't a united tribe of like minded people living in little mini economies. What happens in Michigan ripples threw the nation. The USA should shut down it's international police force and watch europe get over run or go to war with each other again.

another unproven theory is the nation would have been been off if Gore & Kerry had won, you can think it would have been better but it's nothing more than a wild guess nobody could ever prove.

[Christopher McCandless]

where did i comment on the contents of the book ? I've never saw it so couldn't comment on it besides saying he can tell people what they want to hear same as ann coulter can.

Comparing it to Ann Coulter is not commenting on it?

polictics isn't likely to affect me because either way I'll have food, clothing & shelter same as today.

I would hope you would want more from life. What a shame that you dont.

clinton $5.7 trillion it's just an unproven theory, reality was the economy was crashing before he left office and it's just theory 9-11 might not have happened. reality is Bush had nothing to do with the DOT.CON crash or world oil prices taking off. Back in the 90's I was fueling my truck below .80 cents a gallon and thought it ain't going to last long, the import crises america is suffering from has been in the making for decades.

Bush giving irresponsible tax breaks, mismanaging a war, and not controlling spending properly happens to be economic fact. Clinton on the other hand....
[/quote]
in europe they protect their economies threw a VAT tax, stupid americans including comrade clinton give away the country in free trade deals and the USA has a giant dysfunctional population ,we aren't a united tribe of like minded people living in little mini economies. What happens in Michigan ripples threw the nation. The USA should shut down it's international police force and watch europe get over run or go to war with each other again.
[/quote]
VAT is not there to protect the economy, its to pay for national services. The only majorly protectionist economy is France, where the state owns way too much stuff. Look where that got them.

The US problem is that they have abused the fact they have the worlds main reserve currency, and ran up massive deficits using it (which got spent on tax breaks).

another unproven theory is the nation would have been been off if Gore & Kerry had won, you can think it would have been better but it's nothing more than a wild guess nobody could ever prove.

Prove, no. But very few could mismanage any worse than Bush, so in all probability they would be better choices. Gore by the way is proven.

[Johnny]

You've overdosed on the CNN fear mongering, reality is  most of the population is going about their business as always.